The Redskins QB situation was, in short, the most exciting story besides the lockout last season. Unfortunately, it was a controversy between: ‘Sexy Rexy' Grossman and John ‘Janitor' Beck (Not because he cleaned house with his amazing passing abilities). Throughout the season, my roommates and I referred to an article on Kissing Suzy Colber about Rex and his ‘gunslinger' m.o. every time he would do something stupid. Hopefully next season we won't have to make jokes to push aside our sadness and depression when our signal-caller drops back to pass. Hopefully, that signal caller is Matt Flynn.
Matt Flynn surprised everyone last season when he opened in lieu of Aaron Rodgers (out for concussion) against New England. Flynn and the Packers had done everything right: 11-for-19 on 3rd down, 13 passing 1st downs, 226 passing yards, and 40:48 time of possession. The Packers lost the game due to a 70+ yard kickoff return by offensive lineman Dan Connolly.
Enter the 2012 season. Once again, Flynn sat idly by as Aaron Rodgers picked apart defense after defense (aside from a few games...erm, Kansas City?). After a 14-1 record, the Packers were a shoe-in for the Playoffs, and decide to sit Aaron, and rightfully so. Flynn again gets the starting job late in the season, and not only improves on his last start, blows scouts and critics away with his play against the Detroit Lions. Flynn threw for 480 yards and 6 TD's with 70% accuracy. Granted, Aaron Rodgers was on the sideline calling plays for him, it was out of Flynn's hand that the ball was thrown.
Getting film for Flynn wasn't hard, finding variety was.
Let's take a short look at mechanics as a QB. (I am going to utilize Greg Cosell's formula here, with some tweaks of my own):
_____________________________________________________________
Pre/Post-Snap Reads: Generally does well with pre-snap defensive reads. Many times a game you'll see him switching up protection assignments or adjusting the play (usually works in his favor). He's usually able to see a defense adjust post-snap, and can even take advantage. He does, however, like to get fixated on one receiver.
In this play, Nelson is running a deep post, and Detroit will drop a safety (too late) to cover the long-ball. This is an instance of Flynn getting fixated on one receiver, though it works out in his favor. Another item of note is, Flynn doesn't recognize pressure from the backside, luckily he gets the ball out fast. Tim Tebow gets annihilated with his super-slow release right here. This can also be a testament to his arm. Even though the long-ball isn't his best weapon, he is still able to put some distance on the board.
Result: Touchdown
_____________________________________________________________
Arm Strength/Accuracy: Sometimes floats the deep ball a little too much giving time for a safety to come under it and doesn't really place the ball where it needs to be. He's generally accurate at short to medium passes, which is relatively a good thing for the Redskins' system.
Right here we have Driver and Jennings wide left. Jennings and Driver will cross, with Jennings gaining a half-step on his man.
Play-Action. Flynn, under pressure, delivers a perfect ball to Jennings.
Result: Touchdown
_____________________________________________________________
Pocket Presence: Seems like he can recognize a pass rush. He just doesn't have the footwork at this juncture to avoid it. That comes with experience in games, though. In his two games vs NE and DET, both had highly touted pass rushers, and a poorly organized secondary. He put up great numbers. I am only wondering what they would look like against the opposite? He has some good poise under-center. It looks like he isn't going to lose control under pressure and force something that doesn't need to be forced.
Here we see Flynn's pocket collapsing. He has James Jones moving hard down the right sideline in double coverage. Let's see if he checks down.
He doesn't panic. Instead, takes a subtle step to the right getting into a throwing lane, and fires downfield to Jones. Hits him in stride.
Result: Touchdown.
_____________________________________________________________
There are also intangibles like leadership ability and media presence that I am unable but would like to be able to assess for Flynn. After all, it's not just a QB that the Redskins need, it's a franchise face.
Green Bay has a few options in terms of what to do with him. No matter what, any team that signs Flynn will have to put up a lengthy deal, and we'll be getting to that tomorrow morning. There won't be any Rex Grossman-esque 1-year contracts to weigh his options, to say the least.
Going to the FA pool fix the QB situation this year, seems like the best route to me. Especially being that my favorite of the rookies, Tannehill, has a broken foot. QB's that do great in College did just that: Great in College. Matt Flynn played college ball and has also proven he can be effective (at least in the Packers' scheme) at the pro-level. It's not his experience on the field that I want so bad. It's the experience of learning behind Rodgers. I think that is his best bargaining chip.
A lot of fans are going to argue to go after RGIII, but to be honest, I would rather have a guy that has already played in college and has also learned the professional game instead of being spoiled as a rookie.
Matt Flynn is definitely going to be a target for a couple of NFL front offices. The Redskins, Dolphins, Seahawks, and Browns will likely all give him more than just a look over. And the Dolphins have almost no ability, nor means to trade up for Griffin (Or Luck...but Duh). As a Redskin, he would definitely be an improvement over Rex or Beck, but I would still use a late draft pick to secure a QB. You never know, you may have Flynn at the helm, and the next Brady, Brees, or Stafford riding the bench. It's a crap-shoot.
For more articles and gameday info, visit The Burgundy Warpath
1 recs | 385 comments
Let the 568 comment debate begin!
StephanHart - January 18, 2012
haha
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Our can of worms runneth over
Bryan Black - January 18, 2012 via Android app
This is actually becoming reality
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Oh I wasn't joking
StephanHart - January 18, 2012
Nice piece Ronnie
I think you did a good job at showing some of Flynn’s strengths and the potential he brings.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Thanks
I tried to find more film on him, but I don’t have the game pass or whatever to watch them in HQ
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
I have a login to watch every game this season. Send me an email if you need it.
Kevin Ewoldt - January 18, 2012
I mean this from the bottom of my hear, I'd rather have Rex Grossman then sign for Matt Flynn
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
No you wouldn't
You are just being stubborn because you hate Flynn for some reason. Even in limited play he has proven he is at least as good as Rex and possibly better. If we could have Rex minus the interceptions i would take it in a heart beat. I’m not ready to induct Flynn into Canton but i think he is a drastic improvement over what we currently have and he is not going to be as expensive as everybody likes to pretend.
Jeff Bernard - January 18, 2012
I don't hate Flynn at all. I would seriously rather have Rex Grossman as the openind day QB for this team than Flynn.
Sorry, no agenda here.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Can you explain why, Parks?
StephanHart - January 18, 2012
rex can be had for a cheaper, shorter term contract
and he already knows the system
prc805 - January 18, 2012
Not really, I just don't like him as a starting QB.
You’re overpaying for a farce, in my opinion. I didn’t think Flynn was any good in college, and the dude nearly quite football to become a dentist. I’m not comfortable in investing substantial money in a guy based on a two game sample size. He’s obviously developed since his time at LSU, but I still don’t think he can be “the guy”. The ceiling is so low on this guy, the best he can ever be is average.
If we sign Flynn then that means no rookie QB and likely the option of a top flight rookie QB in 2013 is off the table also. I’d rather stay with Rex on a cheap, stop gap deal in that situation.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Adkins' analysis struck me as pretty underwhelming
Some real negatives – arm strength, mobility, blitz recognition. Sort of surprising considering what I’ve been hearing about him. Parks’ opposition is useful because it will cool down some of the rush to judgement. Only Shanahan’s opinion counts, but I think I would still be scheming to get RG3, even for two first rounder picks, plus a little. Or hope St Louis trades Bradford.
Donnio1234 - January 18, 2012
He's apparently masochistic
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
Haha
jmpalomo - January 18, 2012
Why would you want Rex as the opening day starter?
He is one of the worst QBs in football, if not the worst.
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
Lets say he's ranked like 29th, Flynn would be like 25th/26th. That slight upgrade is not worth the money.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Can you also tell me tonight's Powerball Numbers since you're making these predictions?
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
Haha.
I have some stocks I could use some insight on.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Why sign him then if he’s only as good as Rex or “possibly” better?
Brutus89 - January 18, 2012
He's much better than Rex.
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
Not according to Jeff
Brutus89 - January 18, 2012
One time I saw Rex throw 4 TDs, 0 Ints, and 400 yards versus the Lions
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
come on that was 289, Sexy has never gone over the 400 mark
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Would he if he had 5 cracks with Green Bay's offense, after sitting there for a good amount of time?
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
no i don't think Rexy has ever been on the same page as Flynn
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Because we don't even know if RG3 or Luck is as good as Rex or possibly better
We don’t know what any undrafted players will provide once they hit the field. Flynn is a known quality, at least in relation to the undrafted QBs. The franchise cannot afford to trade up for QB and we cannot afford to start Rex any longer. Flynn will provide a solid NFL level QB to manage the game. That is really all we need from the QB position.
Jeff Bernard - January 19, 2012
I just don't think Flynn's a guy that can transition into a starter
and be successful anyways. He’s been in a great and stable environment that has implanted the mechanics he works with. Coming to DC and being forced to work in the style to Mike’s and the other coaches likings could actually make him revert in his development.
If you ask me, someone will sign him, I hope it’s not us, and I think he will follow the leads of Cassel and Kolb, if even that.
Brutus89 - January 18, 2012
Nether Cassel 'nor Kolb were behind Favre and Rodgers their whole career
And neither had games of this caliber.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
didnt Cassel sit behind Tom Brady his entire career?
prc805 - January 18, 2012
yes but i'd say Flynn's upside is higher as well
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
out of curiousity
why do you think that
prc805 - January 18, 2012
I think Flynn has a stronger arm, and is more accurate
I was also impressed with the fact that the Packers were without 4 other offensive starters in that game against the Lions. Yes Flynn still had some talent around him, but it wasn’t the full A-team.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
What about Graham Harrell?
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
i don't think it is the same level of apprenticeship, also we've never seen him in any game action.
that being said I’m for bringing in any young QB’s to knock off Beck and Crompton
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
stupid Barkley
had to ruin everything
prc805 - January 18, 2012
+1
Redskin44 - January 18, 2012
Harrell hasn't even been able to go through McCarthy's QB School yet.
Stupid lockout.
Omaha Sun - January 18, 2012
Cassel was behind Brady so I don't get that argument.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Touche salesman
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Plus Flynn
was never on the roster the same time as Favre I believe
prc805 - January 18, 2012
that is true, Favre was 'retired' when Flynn was drafted
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Yea Flynn came on board in 08, Favre was gone
He did however get to study under the esteemed tutelage of Jamarcus Russell at LSU.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
That IS true.
Well, there goes like 20% of my argument.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
I’ll take sitting behind Brady and McNabb in his prime as decent guys to sit behind.
Brutus89 - January 18, 2012
You can't really count sitting behind
A McNabb in his prime, or say Mike Vick, or any of those mobile guys. Because they based their success on their athletic ability.
I do agree with Brady, though.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
But couldn't you say the exact same thing about sitting behind Aaron Rodgers?
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
I consider Rodgers mobile
but not on the same athletic level as McNabb in his prime or Vick.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
You're killing me man
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Haha
What? I don’t see him throwing down huge chunks of yards with his legs. I don’t see defenses building their defensive game schemes to stop the Aaron Rodgers run game.
I’ll give him this, defenses DO need to prepare a little better for him. Because he has the ability to be kind of dangerous.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Kind of dangerous? He's one of the most mobile, innovative QBs in the league.
No one can escape pressure like he can. Flynn is nothing like Rodgers.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
I never said Flynn was nearly as mobile.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
You were reflecting two different styles of play between McNabb and Kolb
The same can be said between Rodgers and Flynn
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Oh I see
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Oh wait,
Someone was saying that having Kolb behind McNabb in his prime is just as good as Flynn behind Rodgers. I said no becuase of McNabb’s mobility being what he bases his success off of.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Yea you're implying Kolb couldn't learn from McNabb b/c they don't share a similar skillset
The exact same thing can be said about Flynn/Rodgers
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
But nonetheless, he rode the pine and learned that Andy Reid offense, and when he got his chances in Philly, he performed.
Brutus89 - January 18, 2012
also McNabb was well against the Kolb experiment and those two clashed
Rodgers and Flynn apparently have a very strong relationship
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
But the same could be said about the Rodgers/Favre situation
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
rodgers and favre wasn't nearly as acrimonious as Kolb vs McNabb
honestly though negative relationships don’t worry me too much, but a positive relationship like Rodgers and Flynn I think is an added bonus
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
And the stories out of Minny
would indicate that McNabb wasn’t much of an example to follow, while Favre was apparently extremely detail oriented and a bit of a perfectionist. Favre was a much better example to follow.
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
I'll say this for him.
He’s played twice. in those two games he looked amazing.
He shattered the record books of the GREEN BAY PACKERS, an organization with QBs like Bart Starr, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.
He would definitely be an upgrade over Rex.
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
Kolb also broke records in the few games that he played in
Those two games could be anomalies. He might just be a player that blends well with the GB system.
Also, he probably wouldn’t work well here. We rely heavily on our deep ball, Flynn has a pretty weak deep ball from what I’ve heard.
mbedner - January 18, 2012
the difference is Flynn was 2 for 2, Kolb had like 3 really good games and some bad ones as well
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
But at least Kolb had a legit sample size.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
if that was the case than there are plenty of QB's who should have never gotten a chance
not just the GB guys like Brunell and Hasselbeck, but Schaub, or even Romo. Look at his numbers before Parcells benched Bledsoe.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
But most of those guys were picked up b/c of what people saw from them in college.
With the exception of Romo, who was under Parcells and an internal call up. You certainly have outliers, but Schaub, Hasslebeck, and Brunell were great college QBs. Flynn is a worse version of Fitzpatrick, in my opinion. Guy has JT O’Sullivan written all over him.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
i think that is a bit of a stretch
Brunell was pretty awful in college http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=513
He was really only a starter for two years, and his senior year, he threw for 1,300 yards, 5 TD’s to 4 INT’s.
Hasselbeck wasn’t much better http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=513
Again a two year starter, but his best year he threw for 2,200 yards 11 TD’s and 10 INT’s. Yes he had a 61% completion rate which is decent but that is about it.
These guys were projects with nice upside that the Packers liked.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Brunell was a rushing QB who won big games. All three were WAY better pro prospects than Flynn.
Packers have done this many times… what separates Flynn from being Brunell/Hasslebeck or Ty Detmer?
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
he averaged under 4 yards a carry in college, I'd hard say that is the mark of a running QB
and his senior year he averaged under 3 yards a carry.
The Huskies were a good running team, due to Greg Lewis and Napolean Kaufman, but they didn’t really win on the backs of their QB’s.
Now Ty Detmer that is a great college QB, but he had all of 21 attempts with the Packers and obviously didn’t have the same consideration, as he sign a meager deal with Philly.
I’m not denying that there isn’t risk, but the same could be said with drafting a QB.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I'm not sure what you are trying to prove, Steve...
if you are saying Brunell was not a good college QB, a backup who probably did not deserve to be traded for, then I will agree.
That is the point Parks is making. All these examples you come up with are demonstrations of why we should NOT give Flynn a big-time contract.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
WHAT??
since when was Brunell not good enough to trade for or something the Jags should regret??
He was a top 10 QB in the league for like 6 straight years. Not sure what else you were expecting. Maybe the Jags should have just taken Kerry Collins with their pick instead of Tony Boselli.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
don't forget
Jake delhomme. Another FA
PlaymakerInDC - January 18, 2012 via iPhone app
I'd say Flynn's is just as 'legit."
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
2 games versus 15?
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
i believe Kolb only had 7 starts before this year
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Was talking about Cassel
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
ahh my bad
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
+1
Also, on the deep ball comment… I don’t think we are designed to rely heavily on it. Rex just liked to unleash the dragon.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Plus Rex has brain farts.
I don’t think Flynn would float one into triple coverage.
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
Based on what? You must have missed him in college.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
But I didn't miss him in the pros, which is what counts.
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
I think he's talking about Flynn.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
So am I.
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
Two of the examples up there
are double coverage. The first was excellent double coverage. I can’t really rock with that argument.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
You mean where Nelson has two DBs beat pretty handily.
There is a difference between throwing over a coverage and under it.
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
No.
I meant the third. I wasn’t able to get a good shot of it. But it was some pretty tight coverage.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
yes but throwing accurately into coverage and inaccurately into coverage are two completely different things
how many times does Brees, Brady, Rodgers etc. throw into coverage, but it doesn’t matter b/c it is right on the mark.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Steve, you and I agree today.
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
this is a day to celebrate!
hopefully we will be agreeing also when Flynn leads the Skins back to the playoffs!
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I wish I could rec that more than once.
Plus, if we sign Flynn it gives us the ability to pick from top notch OL and WR talent.
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
How am I NOT part of this agreement party?
I’m never invited to these kinds of things. Maybe I smell.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Come on in Ronnie.
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
Thanks
I brought chips and Dungeons and Dragons.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
just as long as you don't bring your guitar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvR6d08L3nc
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I'll just put this
back in the case.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
haha
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Don't like my
shredding?
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
I'm on board.
Sign the guy. If he’s no better than Rex, whatever. With the draft picks we don’t send someone else to trade up, we end up with a better TEAM, not just a better QUARTERBACK. I call it the Alex Smith lesson. 49ers have a primo chance at the big game because they resisted the urge to make a big splash to move up for a better QB and built a team. Let’s do that.
tuckwell - January 18, 2012 via iPhone app
You mean by drafting #1 overall?
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Ehhem...
Mr. Tuckwell, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
Quote aside
I’m not sure it is idiotic :)
tuckwell - January 18, 2012 via iPhone app
I rec'd it for you.
You owe me now.
Omaha Sun - January 19, 2012
I am all for Flynn
I am just saying that he doesn’t always put the long ball where it needs to be, and he’s been picked off in every game he’s played any significant amount of time in professionally. And he needs to be air tight to get a ball into triple coverage. The chances of him throwing into triple are high now that we know he throws into double.
I can see both sides to the argument, though.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Stupid shitty pixelated videos
Ruining my film analysis
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Instead of Flynn we should sign a different ex-LSU Tiger
ROHAN DAVEY!
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Jazz hands
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Same baby momma as Jamarcus?
Kevin Ewoldt - January 18, 2012
serious question
Are we looking for a Cutler (mobile, very strong arm) type of QB or a Schaub (less mobile, accurate) type of QB?
brazilianbeast - January 18, 2012
Serious Answer: Pretty sure Shanny would prefer to have it all: mobile, strong arm, accurate
StephanHart - January 18, 2012
rgIII
Al_CaPWNED - January 18, 2012
My inclination is against this
I don’t think backups who are brought up in and able to succeed in one system as a backup necessarily translate into starters for other teams.
SkinsOsTerps - January 18, 2012
Schaub, Brunell, yada yada
iH8dallas - January 18, 2012
Both of those were not brought up to emulate their starting QBs and system, hahaha
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
well actually i think it is more accurate to say that Schaub fit the ATL system and Vick did not
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I completely agree
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
This is mostly just a profile on his abilities
I accidentally got all opinionated once I started to get to the end.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
I probably wouldn't be up in arms if it happened
I’m just more a fan of the draft and develop model for QB’s. Obviously there are no guarantees but it’s something I’d like us to attempt. I think it’s really rare for you to pluck a person via FA (or even a high round draft pick) and toss them as a starter in a system they’ve never been in before along with the toxic culture that prevailed here for years.
SkinsOsTerps - January 18, 2012
Kevin Kolb worked out well.
Kevin Ewoldt - January 18, 2012
Not sure Flynn makes business sense
Why would any team sign an unknown player (2 games is not enough) to a multi-year, big contract when the draft has contract limits in place? An equal talent can be had for much less.
44ever - January 18, 2012
a
trueredskinm - January 18, 2012 via mobile
Kolb's contract was friendly to the Cards
Not all big contract are player friendly..From what i have heard the Cards can cut Kolb without too much of a hit because of the way the contract was written.. Would Flynn stand for that ? Dont know
I think what will determine a lot will be whether Green Bay risks a franchise tag on him.. If they dont, it is ONLY money and you know how we are with that.
the big advantage of Flynn under those circumstances is that we could use the entire draft to continue building, and he has already been exposed to the pro game..even a good rookie will still have that learning curve.. he should hit the ground running, whereas even a good rookie is going to take some lumps
i can be happy either way, as long as we commit to someone this offseason other than the trash we now have
shally - January 18, 2012
GB will franchise Finley
Flynn will be flapping in the wind
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
He'll be signed by someone, I doubt he'll be flapping in the wind
StephanHart - January 18, 2012
Flynn will be
A Redskin, Dolphin, Seahawk, or Browns starting QB at the onset of the 2012 pre-season.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Root for the Browns
if you want the Redskins to get RG3.
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
goooo, Brownnnnnsssss......
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
Well, every player is unknown. Draft or Flynn. Signing Flynn allows Skins to use that 1st pick elsewhere. 2 major holes fixed. After the Kolb disaster, I think he’ll be getting a moderate contract.
Kevin Ewoldt - January 18, 2012
+1
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
+1
plus i think flynn would take a small 2 to 3 year deal from a team like us. if he does good here then he can get paid the big bucks. i think he would want us to sign him because he will be the clear number 1 for this team.
munson21502 - January 18, 2012
why would he not take advantage of his leverage at it's peak...
this is wishful thinking…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
he has no leverage..
he has had 2 good games on a powerful offensive team. if he would sign here and have a good season or 2 he would have 20 teams eating out of his hands instead of 4.
munson21502 - January 18, 2012
this tells me...
I am glad you are not an agent for any sport athlete…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
i wouldnt be very good at it . but the teams and fans would like me at least
munson21502 - January 18, 2012
I think Flynn contract will be bigger than you think, but not necessarily the risk that many are projecting
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
This is the argument I despise the most
“2 games”. How many professional games has Tannehill played? Barkley? LUCK?
I understand they were great in college, but Flynn has demonstrated potential in the NFL. If he didn’t have the talent, he wouldn’t have thrown for 6 touchdowns Regardless of what system he was in or against.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
TIMEOUT
This is what I despise, the people that use those two games in their favor, but at the same time won’t let you use the small sample size as a possible conflict or point of questioning. Furthermore no one is basing that they don’t think Flynn is worth it b/c of those two games, rather those two PLUS his college career (which was far beyond two games)
Doesn’t matter, think about it this way. How do Tannehill, Barkley, Luck, etc compare to Flynn coming out of college?
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
How did
Art Schlichter, Gino Torretta, Jason White, or Andre Ware do in college? Great.
How about in the NFL? Sucked
I have said it before, it’s a crap-shoot. You never know. The chances of being better in the NFL are higher if you’re good in college, but it’s not definite.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
So why not grab a guy with a higher probability of being good, who cost less?
It seems like a no brainer to me.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Because I don't think Flynn will cost too much
and would rather use that probability to get better players around the signal-caller. Like a few linemen and a deep threat WR or two. If we could win 5 with Rex, and have 5 games within a score, I think we can contend for a few years.
Sign Flynn
Use this year’s draft to build around him
See what he can do
Keep building in ‘13 and ’14
If he hasn’t worked out by then, draft a big name QB
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Right... b/c we play the same schedule every year.
We had one of the easiest schedules in the league this year, and have the AFC North coming to town next year.
You just described the Buffalo Bills.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Nobody's opnion matters
Only yours Parks.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
I'm not saying that at all.
The only thing people are selling Flynn on is “he had two good games”, I don’t believe the attributes are there to be a successful starting QB in this league. I means seriously what is Flynn’s ceiling? I’d just much rather invest in a rookie then a 7th rounder from 2008 that has started 2 NFL games.
The NFL is a tough league, there are close games week in and week out regardless of how good a team is. I just don’t think Flynn is that much of an upgrade over Rex and he’s definitely not worth the upgrade.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
I think Flynn's ceiling is that of a top 10 QB
i truly believe in his ability and think he can achieve it, if you build around him.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I disagree all the way around, sorry. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.
The guy doesn’t have the build, the athletic ability, or the intangibles. DC is a pressure cooker for QBs, Flynn would go up in flames.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
see that is what I see about Barkley
he doesn’t have the tools and he doesn’t throw on the numbers, he is a recipe for disaster on a team like the Skins.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
but if he were in the draft...
our committment selecting Barkley would be less than the contract Flynn will be looking for…
Also, Barkley is a three year starter at one of the biggest college programs in the nation, highest rated QB coming out of high school. Flynn had NONE of that. Could Barkley still fail? Absolutely. But he comes from a better background than Flynn.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
that's not entirely true
Barkley’s guaranteed money would be about $20 million for the first 4 years, then $15 million for year 5 (we have an option after the 3rd year)
Flynn’s guaranteed money would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $25 million, but it can be structured in a variety of different ways, and it would be over 6 to 7 years.
And Barkley’s high school exploits doesn’t mean much, yes I know Mel Kiper said 3 years ago he will be a top overall pick, but so what. As you said he can still easily fail.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
$20 million @ #6...
are you sure about that?
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
what did the #6 pick get last year...
understand, I am hypothetically proposing that Barkley would be available @ #6 this year, after Luck #1 and RG3 #2-#4?
What would the #6 pick get in guaranteed $$$?
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
Why are we talking about Barkley?
He isn’t even the top QB in college NEXT year
ptowny - January 18, 2012
I am arguing that Barkley would have been cheaper than Flynn this year...
My argument was with Steve, who was not responding…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
Got ya...
Flynn is going to cost more than Luck too
ptowny - January 19, 2012
Not to us.
Flynn is simply money. Luck or RG3 are money AND missing draft picks.
tuckwell - January 19, 2012
what to do next year
I say just put qb off the table maybe get weeden later, no point in wasting a rd 2 pick
jbh1190 - January 18, 2012
4 years, 16.2 mil
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
it was just over $16 million, though that goes up every year.
I’m not sure exactly what it will be but it will be probably closer to $18 million than $20.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
and how much guaranteed...
that was my original point, you attempted to dispute, failing miserably.
Barkley would have been a much cheaper option than Flynn.
Agreed?
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
all of it is guaranteed for a rookie
Flynn would cost more, only if he succeeds.
Here’s how you break it down:
If both fail, Barkley costs more (and its a draft pick)
If both succeed Flynn costs more in the short term, potentially better in the long term.
If one fails and one succeeds obviously the one who succeeds is worth it.
Now the problem with that is it is just binary, where as both could ‘succeed’ but one could succeed more. Ditto with failing.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
when deciding between both...
I would presume both failing and what that would cost me, since if he blossoms, I don’t care how much it costs.
Flynn would cost more in guaranteed money, especially if he fails and we have to rid ourselves of him two years from now…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
it depends on when they fail
if it is in the first 3 years you are right. But if Barkley were to have a career similar to say Josh Freeman (some good, a lot bad, but with potential) you’d have to guarantee that 5th year for $15 million.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
so, assuming they both fail...
before year four, Flynn costs more…
Thanks. I knew you would see it my way.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
yes but here's the thing
it would be by only $6 million, if it is after year 4, than Barkley costs $9 million more than Flynn in guaranteed money.
Also, there is a difference between a draft pick and free agency.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
by from my perspective...
Flynn is going to fail, BIG TIME. So that 6 million is money wasted.
And the only way we will know if Flynn can hold his own is to overpay.
Now, I am not against overpaying, just I suggest we do it in the draft. I guess our QB situation will demand an overpayment somewhere.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
and if we are going to overpay...
I would rather trade up to #2 and pick RG3, with his athleticism, arm strength, and 4 yrs younger…
That is just me…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
failed draft picks DO NOT get nearly as much pub as...
failed FA signings.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
i guess, but trading up for a failed prospect costs more (with all the picks given up)
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I completely agree with building through the draft and establishing depth on this team.
I’m just tired of mediocre QB play and that’s what you’re going to get with Flynn in this situation.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
I can see your argument
Whic his completely valid. But you can’t ignore the chance that he may acutally be a good fit.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
HAha, I had some loony-tune on the bus yesterday try to tell me that if the Redskins were in the AFC North, we'd be division champs every year
StephanHart - January 18, 2012
wow...
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
We'd be selecting 4th instead of 6th
Redskin44 - January 18, 2012
yes but after 4 years in the NFL the college career is pretty meaningless
what’s more valuable John Beck’s impressive college career, or his 7 miserable NFL starts. i’ll admit there are some intriguing guys based on their college career (Quinn for instance) , but people aren’t pointing to them as saviors.
Flynn’s two NFL starts are far more valuable than what he did 4 years ago.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I agree, but I think it justifies how low the ceiling is for Flynn in a situation like this.
He’s simply not a Top 20 quarterback.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
but why?
Flynn is accurate, smart, and shows signs of a leader
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Every year it's some shiny new backup
I’m just not that convinced he’s the guy we’re propping him up to be.
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
same can be said about some shiny new draft pick
some work out, most dont
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I've never run the analysis
But do you think it’s reasonable to assume that in the last 10 years more top 3 QB draft prospects have worked out than free agent backup signings?
Nothing is 100%, but I’ll play the better odds.
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
neither list is too inspiring
you only have a handful in either case.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
So, no...
it’s not reasonable to assume that?
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
it all depends on how you define those two things
Are we only talking hyped backups like Schaub, Cassell etc?
Are we only talking about QB’s taken in the top 10, 15? Does top 3 include a Jimmy Clausen?
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Since this is theoretical
I would say first round QB prospects (i.e. Tebow would not qualify, because he was not given a first round grade) and backups signed by new teams to compete for starting jobs.
Those would be the parameters I would use, in theory, to run this analysis. And it is my opinion that the first group (the first round graded prospects) would fair better statistically.
Could I be wrong yes, but that is my opinion.
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
1st round graded QB's is a bit hard to quanify since you'd need a standard
also that would mean a Jimmy Clausen def. would qualify b/c just about every scouting service put him in the first round.
FWIW, top 3 QB’s in the last 10 years (including a couple 2nd rounders who were probably considered top 3): Vick, Brees, Carr, Harrington (Ramsey would be debatable), Palmer, Leftwich, Boller (Grossman debatable also), Manning, Rivers, Roehtlisberger, A. Smith, Rodgers, Young, Leinart, Cutler, Russell, Quinn, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman, Bradford, Clausen
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I don't see it man.
Lets look at something no one has brought up… Flynn’s preseason where he has equal talent around and against him.
2011: 22-40, 55%, 311 yards, 2 TDS, 1 INT, 5 sacks, 86 QB Rating
2010: 50-85, 59%, 583 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INT, 4 sacks, 78 QB Rating
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
How would you feel
about a Flynn/Tannehill combo platter?
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
Don't see the point...
why waste a high pick on a position that you just invested a bunch of money into?
IF we got Flynn, and he worked out, Tannehill wouldn’t be some big trade commodity…if that were the case, Colin Kaepernick would be the first one dealt this offseason now that Smith is showing what he can do
ptowny - January 18, 2012
Doing what the Cowboys did
with Aikman and Walsh. Cowboys spent first rounders on both of them in the same year. You bet on one of them working out. If they both work out you trade one.
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
agreed...though the Cowboys were able to do that also b/c they had so many extra picks from the Walker deal
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
there is a new argument...
haven’t heard this one before…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
huh?
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Walker's deal...
anti trade up propaganda…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
how is that anti trade up propaganda? What are you talking about?
how does drafting Walsh and Aikman anti trade up?
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I was not referring to Aikman / Walsh...
I was referring to the Herschel Walker trade, all those picks Dallas inherited from Minnesota…
Get it….
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
still fail to understand what that has to do with the anit-trade up discussion since you know, we weren't having one
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
never mind...
I’m getting a headache…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
well feel better then
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Cowboys also
got a 1,2,4 from the Saints when they traded him
Redskin44 - January 18, 2012
You DO realize that 2nd round QB's can be groomed into starters right?
If we got Flynn and a 2nd rounder, we could develop the second rounder, not look to trade him in the near future. Especially with a guy like Tannehill, who has a high upside but greatly needs experience.
StephanHart - January 18, 2012
yes, Stephan...
I am fine with a 2nd tier QB, along with developing them.
NOT FLYNN!!!!!!
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
who is the starter then?
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
come on down kyle orton
Redskin44 - January 18, 2012
as far as I am concerned...
I agree with Parks.
If we can’t get Luck, RG3, or Manning, then let Rex start, while developing a guy…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
if we sign Nicks, Myers and Bowe as FA...
Rex would be fine…
Then use the draft to solidify OL and Defense…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
what do you think Steve...
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
I think Rex is obviously limited in any offense you put him in, but with increased talent around him it could only get better
personally I’d rather grab Flynn than say a Bowe in FA
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Throw in Pat Devlin and I'm game
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Does Longwood have a football team?
Any prospects?
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
No, but we won the national championship in rugby last year.
And one time this guy threw a vortex over the high rise dorms. We can probably get him on the cheap.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
i get what you are saying, but you could easily find examples to disprove that
Cam’s preseason this year, Schaub’s in 2006 the year before he was traded http://www.nfl.com/player/mattschaub/2505982/gamelogs?season=2006
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I didn't say anything, I simply presented the numbers
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
well you kinda implied it
and the point is preseason numbers can’t be used as a barometer as well.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
There is no barometer really, thats what sucks
All of the QBs are. There is no end to this discussion/argument. I just don’t like Flynn as the starter here, can’t explain it, its my eyeballs, and I don’t want him. If he comes here then cool, I’ll support him and his five head. I’d just personally rather get a rookie
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
nice picture of a card game out of the 70's...
I think I used to play that game when I was 6.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
Uno is timeless, it knows no age
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
+1
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
I've got no opinion on any of them
as I know I know nothing about scouting nfl QB’s. Just waiting to see what they do, then like you I’ll root for who ever it is. As long as it isn’t Grossbeck again.
Gonna be a long two months to free agency.
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
Don't worry, none of us do.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Has anyone use the ESPN QBR on him
in the regular season games?
ptowny - January 18, 2012
This is interesting
Watch it, Parks. You are on a fast-track to turn me around.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
not as good... but also not as good as ryan leaf,ty detmer or any other big time collage player who was a bust on the next level
i think we must take a chance on flynn if we can get him to sign cheap. which allen is very good at.that way we aint forced to trade up in the draft. if one of the others want to over pay for flynn just let them have him. but we have to at least offer him a chance to be a clear starter on a team thats very close to being a winner again. then if flynn has a few good seasons he can get the big bucks
munson21502 - January 18, 2012
Ty Detmer was taken in the 9th round, he story is similar to Flynns. Bad example
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
ok
but wasnt he good in collage? my memory isnt very good
munson21502 - January 18, 2012
There is a difference in being good in college and being a good pro prospect.
DeNard Robinson: Good in college, not a good pro prospect
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
As a quarterback...
I’d love to see him in the Dexter McCluster role
ptowny - January 18, 2012
That's the point though
Barkley, Luck, RGIII, etc. have shown next level QB ability in a larger sample of games. Flynn had a college career, let’s compare that.
Flynn has clearly been coached up since his college days, and I think what Parks, myself, and others would like to see is for us do the same with a guy who has more natural ability and more upside. Apologies if I’m mispeaking on others behalf.
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
But what if Barkley doesn't get better? and what if his natural abilities aren't above Flynn's?
I watched every game of his this year, and I’ll tell you no QB was more helped out by his supporting cast than him.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Then that would suck
My point isn’t that Barkley is infallible. My point is that one of those negative outcomes has a higher chance of happening.
Why doesn’t that make sense?
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
what negative outcomes? now i'm confused
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Negative outcomes
1. Matt Barkley sucks in the pros
2. Matt Flynn sucks as an every game starter
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
it depends on what you base it on
more of these highly touted backups have ended up succeeding as starters (in a %) than highly drafted QB’s. Also in all likelihood we’d have to trade up for Barkley next year, and wait another year. Both of those things would need to be factored in as would the contracts.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Today he's Matt Flynn
but tomorrow he could be with the likes of Rob Johnson or Scott Mitchell. I don’t think many would take Flynn of Luck.
I could be sold on Flynn as a FA if it’s very reasonable, but I don’t think it will with Miami, Cleveland, and Seattle desperate for a solid QB.
44ever - January 18, 2012
but what does it take to acquire that equal talent?
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
44ever - really good point
in value, and financially, it makes no sense to throw a lot of money at Flynn. Don’t overpay for an unknown. And we’d be burning a lot of bridges in doing it.
Donnio1234 - January 18, 2012
Plan
1. Sign Flynn to a comparatively reasonable contract
2. Trade back 2 times in the 1st round of the draft to set up big 2012 and 2013 drafts.
3. Draft Nick Foles in the 2nd round to develop as your future starter.
4. Get a late round/UDFA QB as a 3rd string, project QB.
5. Get Rex and Beck off the roster.
StephanHart - January 18, 2012
If this is how it worked out
I’d probably be ok with it.
SkinsOsTerps - January 18, 2012
+1 with change draft O-line in first round
Rodskins - January 18, 2012
I'd rather use that 2nd round pick on something else
and grab a top QB next year
prc805 - January 18, 2012
Fine with me
StephanHart - January 18, 2012
You are right about it being a crapshoot
I’d be in favor of this IF they still snatched up a decent prospect in the draft.
I would rather have someone like RGIII to get excited about though. I miss being excited about redskins games and I’m tired of waiting around for those 2 picks/turnovers every game.
Whatever they do, grossman needs to be off the team or on the bench playing grab ass with kyle.
Al_CaPWNED - January 18, 2012
Nice post Ronnie.
My opinion on Flynn, FWIW. I wouldn’t sign him (or anybody, for that matter) for the amount of money Flynn is likely to get without having a lot more film of him. I’d want to see his bad games, his good games and everything in between to get a feel for his floor, his ceiling and his consistency level.
On Flynn’s performance against Detroit. He played well, did everything that was asked of him and more. He broke a record for a Franchise that has had Rodgers and Favre are QB. But it was a meaningless game for the Packers, in a pass-heavy offense which is designed to let the QB make lots of throws. And it was against the Lions, who are far from a good pass defense. For me, there is enough doubt there to say I wouldn’t pay him the kinda money that has been rumored.
UkRedskin - January 18, 2012
Flynn won't cost too much
All of the front offices have the Kolb and Cassel situation in the back of their minds.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
If they have that in the back of their minds
Then why would any GM make any move for Flynn at all? Neither Kolb of Cassel have really worked out.
UkRedskin - January 18, 2012
Right....
Just this time last year, “Kolb won’t cost too much, front offices have Cassel and McNabb on their minds”
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
There were other backup failures prior to them
that front offices also had the ability to evaluate. Every year is different and the market is not highly impacted by the success of others.
DavidDunn - January 18, 2012
Flynn has more
Leverage than both of those guys. They didn’t have a choice of what team they would go to. Flynn can take his minuscule sample size, the desperation teams have to find the “next big thing”, mix them all up in the “great, offseason hype machine”, and turn them into a nice, fat contract from whichever team wants to pay him the most.
CJHutch - January 18, 2012
If they decide to franchise him so they can deal him on draft day...
Charlie Whitehurst will be the next one on their minds
ptowny - January 18, 2012
God I hate you parks smith
Bdam - January 18, 2012 via mobile
+1
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Why not Flynn?
Shanahan has a decision to make on his QB. Who that is? We can only debate. One thing we all know though, including Shanahan, is that we need a QB who can start right away and begin learning the offense. There are only a few QB’s in the draft and in free agency who can do that. Luck will go to IND, so that leaves RGIII in the draft and Flynn in free agency.
If it’s Flynn, he’ll outbid everyone for his services when free agency begins (which is before the draft). Then, he can focus on the draft. Most likely scenario.
If it’s RGIII, he won’t even look at Flynn and do whatever it takes to outbid CLE to trade up. This is a huge risk though because CLE holds all the cards. CLE is in position to stay put if teams like STL and MIN do not want to trade back. If they need to trade up, they have two first round picks this year which can allow them to part with at least one of them. The current situation doesn’t look good for WAS.
Bottom line is that we can debate on who is better between Flynn or RGIII, but all we can do is speculate. No one will know, including Shanahan, until his QB steps onto the field, whether that be Flynn or RGIII.
rcboulter - January 18, 2012
Flynn
I understand both sides of the argument but if we cant get RG3 id much rather sign Flynn and Nicks from N.O. In free agency leaving us the flexibilty of trading back in the draft and filling some holes . We need depth at so many positions especially our secondary.
Jonah Knows - January 18, 2012 via mobile
Am I the only one who thinks tannehill
is overrated. I could be wrong but I’m not
sold on him being anything more than a decent qb. Reminds me of a rich mans Rex grossman
believe_the_curse - January 18, 2012 via mobile
I think his value is a bit inflated right now. But still think he can be a Top 15 starter in this league.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Tannehill
like the other 2nd tier draft prospects will probably be about as good as the franchise that develops them (with all the usual caveats about injury, luck, etc.).
SkinsOsTerps - January 18, 2012
Completely agree
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Good thing we have the perfect situation for him here...
mbedner - January 18, 2012
Flynn makes the most sense
-all QB’s are a risk
-Flynn performed well in the NFL, actually outperformed Rogers.
-Flynn will be costly, but only money, we can trade back and get more picks and get lineman
-RG3 will cost money, draft picks, and we have to call him the third, not to mention he still needs to some work to fit.
-Not sure how we can even compare Flynn to Rex (the ball dropper and interception king)
-Lorenzo Alexander even wants Flynn
-Flynn will be a Redskin
Rodskins - January 18, 2012
god i hope not
prc805 - January 18, 2012
The above post
is the best evidence I have seen that Washington won’t get Flynn. If Washingtonwin also posts that Flynn will be a redskin, then it’s 100% that he won’t. This post puts it at about 90%
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
??
he who argues with a fool is a greater fool.
Rodskins - January 18, 2012 via Android app
He didn't argue with you
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
if
the words evidence and percentage are not part of an argument, then I am the fool.
Rodskins - January 18, 2012 via Android app
fool it is...
ptowny - January 18, 2012
It was replying to the Article, Rodskins
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
you don't like winning?
Rodskins - January 18, 2012 via Android app
Haha
Outperformed? Because of one game?
CJHutch - January 18, 2012
If Flynn outperformed Rodgers...
then maybe Green Bay will be willing to trade him instead…I mean, Flynn shattered records that Farve and Rogers couldn’t, and it only took 2 games.
I see the light now
yes, this is pure sarcasm
ptowny - January 18, 2012
don't know who we should get at qb
but I think the argument to keep rex because knows the system is over-rated. Yates did pretty well for not knowing the system til this year. Most of these qb’s are intelligent enough to grasp the system in their first year.
mkjo - January 18, 2012
Who has the better supporting cast for a quarterback? Houston Texans or Washington Redskins?
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
That's it
Trade for T.J. Yates. Problem solved.
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
I hope you are wrong
Rodskins - January 18, 2012 via Android app
It's a joke
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
We already traded him once
CJHutch - January 18, 2012
Ronnie, here is my problem...
just being Rodgers backup, emulating his techniques as you say, does not make him Rodgers, as much as Scott Mitchell to Dan Marino or Cassell to Brady. Yes, it is great to have such a mentor, but you either have the skills or you don’t.
Also, you mention his technique as if our coaches are going to leave him alone. What if our QB coach, or OC, or HC wants to tweek his technique? There goes all your “he learned from Rodgers” perceived benefits.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
what if they want to tweak Luck's or Griffin's technique?
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
That is not my point...
take a breath for a minute. My point was directed to Ronnie, since he was so enamored with the technique he has absorbed from Rodgers.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
okay but Ronnie's point is that it works for Flynn, just like Luck's works for him
so why would they want to change one and not the other?
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
whose techniques did Luck inherit by just playing with him...
maybe you are not getting it. I am sarcastically calling out Ronnie’s point about where Flynn gets his techniques.
Wow, you are having trouble today….
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
how so?
what am I saying that is wrong?
Flynn now has good technique whether he got it from Rodgers or the coaching staff (whom also gave it to Rodgers) is meaningless.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Steve, did you read Ronnie's article...
or just jump in…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
i read it, not sure what you are implying
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
here was Ronnie's comments...
So I was just mocking his belief that playing behind Rodger makes Flynn a good QB.
It loses something in the explanation, like having to explain a joke…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
My point was
Learning from him has to count for something. I am taking the years in college, and years behind and using them as a learning curve. I said it was his best bargaining chip, not what makes him good.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
let's be clear, Ronnie...
Flynn had (1) one year, not years.
Your point in regards to his bargaining power is NOT his college record and his bench warming. He is going to turn his single game record setter into the most $$$ he can get….
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
When I said years
I meant years. He has sat behind Rodgers since 2008. THAT is what I… I think his best bargaining chip will be. Not one game against a shoddy pass D.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
one year in college...
sorry I was not as clear…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
I will give that to you
Only his 2007 year. But this isn’t about that. I think that he would be a good fit. That may, or may not be how you feel. But you are entitled to that. To each his/their own. More power to you, Gibbs.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
and I respect your viewpoint...
along with everyone on that side of the fence.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
I wasn't enamored with it
I just think that there is an impact left over from being behind him
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Forget technique
How about film study habits, game prep, leadership and demeanor?
tuckwell - January 18, 2012 via iPhone app
Those are the intangibles I mentioned.
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
Right
And I’m saying sitting behind Rogers for 4years can only help those intangibles.
tuckwell - January 18, 2012 via iPhone app
Ah okay.
My bad
Ronnie Adkins - January 18, 2012
here's my problem with those that say trade up for RG 111
- third is too costly and we have to wait
- Matt Flynn is cheaper and ready and we can trade back and get decent lineman
- Alex Smith, all this talk about QB’s please, if we improve our defense, it won’t matter as long as he doesnt give it away (Rex)
Rodskins - January 18, 2012 via Android app
better talent costs more...
Flynn will NOT be cheap, especially with guaranteed $$$…
If we want to ever win the SB, we will need a great QB…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
except...
We did win SB with Theismann, Willams, Rypien….none great QB’s as far as history is concerned…
OhNoNotAgain - January 18, 2012
20 years ago...
that might as well be 50 years ago.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
just sayin'....
OhNoNotAgain - January 18, 2012
You forgot Slingin' Sammy Baugh...
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
No, we won those with Gibbs and the Hogs.
mkjo - January 18, 2012
Different era, different parameters
Not realistic to expect that again.
CJHutch - January 18, 2012
I don't want Robert Griffin One Hundred and Eleven either
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
If he have to wait 108 generations to get a qb
I’m going to be very disappointed.
ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 18, 2012
Matt Flynn is a Average QB at he maybe like 18-22 in the league if hee started
The ceiling IMO for Matt Flynn is a Matt Moore or Kyle Orton and i dont think too many people are ready to give either guy the keys to the franchise
Highspeed30 - January 18, 2012
Kyle Orton had a 4,000 yard season
The rest of his team sucked. And by the way, you give me the 18th ranked QB in the league with a top five defense and a top ten running game and I’ll take that NFC East championship, thank you very much. It so happens that the 18th ranked QB in the league this year is going to be playing this weeked, Joe Flacco.
tuckwell - January 19, 2012
Bold Prediction: Matt Flynn signs with the Raiders
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
I like it....what happens to Carson Palmer?
StephanHart - January 18, 2012
hopefully it doesn't involve Shanny trading for him.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I don't want to waste any $$$$ for a backup...
I would rather invest that money into OG Nicks, C Myers, WR Bowe…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
I'm all for Flynn
His sample size is small, but when one of your samples is a record shattering game for a historic QB franchise like Green Bay, you have to pause and say the upside here is tremendous. Rex Grossman’s upside is capped, and we see the ceiling for Flynn is much higher. He’s shown EXTENSIVE improvement since his college days, so bringing up his college performances is irrelavent here. He’s a pro and knows what it takes to be a pro, something that he has the edge on both Luck and RGIII. Luck and RGIII will cost us VALUABLE draft picks and mortgaging of our future, and even those guys are a coin flip until they have some pro film under their belts. The best option for improving our QB situation is Matt Flynn, and it won’t take mortgaging our future to do it.
Parks seems to be in love with the idea of Rex Grossman as his QB, I SAY HELL NO TO THAT IDEA!!!
Kurtstack - January 18, 2012
Yea, you got me!
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
the fact that you think Matt Flynn has ANYTHING over Luck or RG3...
shows the insanity, overvaluation of this guy…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
ANYTHING
The + over luck and RGIII is it is actually POSSIBLE to acquire him without giving away our entire draft. Is that not a plus in your opinion? GEEZ, mortgage the future to go after some young hyped QB, that’s a great idea…
Kurtstack - January 18, 2012
It's possible to acquire me without mortgaging the future
does that give me a plus over RGIII and Luck, as well?
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
Perhaps
If you’d shattered the single game passing record for a franchise that featured Bart Starr, Brett Favre, and Aaron Rodgers.
Kurtstack - January 18, 2012
Good point
In fact, what we should be doing is trying to sign Aaron Rodgers once the Packers cut him. Given Matt Flynn’s record shattering performance, he’s clearly the best QB in Packers franchise history.
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
The few QBs that have
Put up Matt Flynn numbers in a single game, are all pretty phenomenal QBs. But if you want to sit there and tell me he sucks, and that you would be a better signing than matt flynn, then that’s your perogative.
Kurtstack - January 18, 2012
It's pretty interesting to watch you take peoples points
and reframe them to your liking, regardless of the context.
Matt Flynn may very well be a good QB, but that one performance can’t be the crux of your argument. I’m sure there are other arguments to be made, so make them.
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
Reframing points to your liking
People who live in glass houses…
“In fact, what we should be doing is trying to sign Aaron Rodgers once the Packers cut him. Given Matt Flynn’s record shattering performance, he’s clearly the best QB in Packers franchise history.”
Kurtstack - January 18, 2012
I was using hyperbole to point out the flaw in your logic
If that doesn’t make sense, then I don’t have much else to say.
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
My thinking
Before the record breaking performance was that perhaps Matt Flynn has learned quite a bit from Aaron Rodgers over the years, and perhaps he has what it takes to be a good starter now. The record shattering game was just a decent piece of evidence to support my hypothesis. I’m not saying hes a hall of famer or anything, but he certainly displayed some of the things he has learned over the years.
Kurtstack - January 18, 2012
This I can respect
and sounds reasonable. From here, I would just say that my opinion is that if Matt Flynn can be coached up from his college-self to where he is now (assuming he’s good), that a guy with more upside can be coached up even more and would be my preferred option.
SCSkin21 - January 18, 2012
Okay
Clearly we have two different opinions but I can agree with that. Believe me I like Luck and RGIII, but I have a feeling the price, in terms of draft picks, may not be worth it. And if we eliminate RGIII and Luck as options, I can only realistically see Grossman or Flynn leading us next season, and in that scenario I prefer Flynn.
Kurtstack - January 18, 2012
so should they only be framed to one way of thinking?
no i don’t think the weight of the world should be on Flynn’s game performance, but we’ve had many people on here try to trash that game for some reason or another.
Flynn has displayed the values necessary to be a good starting QB in this league, and that is his potential. While those two starts aren’t the be all, end all, they aren’t nothing either.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
considering the system its in with the numerous good to great wrs they have
i’d be very lenient to bring him here.
jbh1190 - January 18, 2012
my issue is cost...
if we could have him for, say a 7th round pick, $2 million a year, then let’s try him out…
But you don’t “try a guy out” for $25 million. That’s all it is for me. The accolades come with finding the hidden gem, when no one knew the guy, not throwing tons of money to the latest flavor of the month.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
it could get pricey, but then again the Redskins have a pretty clean cap right now and could take a risk
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
see my response ealier...
where I want the team to invest their $$$$….
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
a WR like Bowe would cost even more guaranteed money than Flynn
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
that may be true...
and as we have already agreed on, WRs are not imperative this year. I would still like to spend the money saved from NOT signing Flynn and spending it elsewhere….
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
I'd like to take the draft picks we save from not giving up half of two drafts
and add some quality players to this team by spending them elsewhere in the draft. That’s all this boils down to, really. RG3 a better prospect than Flynn? Sure. But Flynn is better than Rex, better than other FA options, and saves us from trading a ton of draft picks in a year that we absolutely HAVE to continue the youth movement we started. He’s “good enough.” I know Parks and Tiller just threw up in their mouths a little bit, but swallow the bile, boys. Shanallen know this, and it’s the ONLY logical move.
tuckwell - January 19, 2012
where we spend it...
is a good topic for debate…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
well i'll be breaking down the contracts of both Flynn and Grubbs tomorrow so that will be a good place to debate it.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
I don't think we would have to give away the entire draft to get RG3
Plenty of picks left. And the team doesn’t have too many other dire needs (of course, they would like to get one or two safeties, one O-lineman, a big WR, but many of those can be obtained in lower rounds and/or FA), so I think can afford to go big on QB.
Donnio1234 - January 18, 2012
The discussion
Is ridiculous anyway because I think Flynn will land in Seattle.
Kurtstack - January 18, 2012
To back up Tavaris Jackson?
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
be a good chance...
i think this is why we have the best chance to get flynn cheap. if he takes a nice size check to play in seattle then has a bad camp and lose the job to jackson then flynn`s chances to be a starting nfl qb could be over or least he will never see a another big pay day.
munson21502 - January 18, 2012
Well
Ive seen to get the #2 pick from the Rams might cost
2012: #1, #2 and #4
2013: #1 and #3
Thats 3 to 5 starters
Redskin44 - January 18, 2012
So your saying you want Rex?
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
NOPE
Read the subject heading! “I’m ALL FOR FLYNN”, we can keep Rex as a backup if you really want to keep him around.
Kurtstack - January 18, 2012
I was responding to jgibbsfan1 in jest, its what happens when you hit the "reply" button
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
Thanks
For the lesson professor.
Kurtstack - January 18, 2012
no, that is not what I want...
you should already know this…
I’m the insane lunatic who dares to venture out there with my wish to trade up for Luck, since he is not only the best choices of all the options this year, he is perhaps the best choice in the last 15 years.
Luck is my Plan A, RG3 is Plan B, Manning Plan C, Rex (with 2nd rd guy – Tannehill, Foles, Weeden) is Plan D.
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
Interesting tidbit
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
they want us to offer them a trade i bet for griffen
like our first and second plus a 3rd rounder or something next year.maybe the vikes would take it to move up to the 3 spot? lol
munson21502 - January 18, 2012
haha and a very confusing one at that
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
the Browns just dont have a need to trade up IMO
They have the luxury of being able to give Colt McCoy 1 more year, and grab the best player that fall to them @ the 4 spot, If someone trad up to #2 the Vikes will get Kalil, and Browns will get Blackmon. Even if Rams took Blackmon and Vikes trade pick , the Browns will be able to get Trent Richardson, claiborne or trade back to someone for Kalil
Highspeed30 - January 18, 2012
outside of an age difference, what difference is there between Colt McCoy and Rex Grossman?
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
Colt McCoy only started 21 games in his career
He did not get a full off season, and if you ask any Browns fan they would tell you he had no help on offense, with receivers dropping passes and he is way more mobile than Rex, and you can not just throw out age cause this will only be his third season.
Highspeed30 - January 18, 2012
If the Redskins was in the #4 spot with another 1st rd pick #22 i would not trade up
Cause i would be in a position to add either RG3, Blackmon, or Kalil therefore i would not be inclined to trade up
Highspeed30 - January 18, 2012
okay thats fair and at least you are consistent
my problem is I think many who say “Browns shouldn’t trade up” would be signing a different tune if the Skins were in the Browns shoes.
Steve Shoup - January 18, 2012
but I would hope our FO...
acted like they were moving up, forcing other teams to pay big.
This is the season for misdirection, isn’t it?
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
I think Minnesota hope that St. louis Take Blackmon
so they can then trade back, maybe pick up a 3rd rd pick this year and a 1st 2013 from the Skins and then they still might be able to get their guy Kalil @ 6 if not Riley Reiff or Jonathon Martin
Highspeed30 - January 18, 2012
Highspeed - so we go to 3, and take RG3?
Man, I’d drink to that.
Donnio1234 - January 18, 2012
i'm still flabbergasted
at how bad our luck was this year that we ended up in a draft like this in this position winning just enough games to keep us out of top pick contention and having so many holes to fill that we need to trade down to aquire more picks but we have no top end talent.
big WTF FACEPALM
jbh1190 - January 18, 2012
It happens every year
I don’t understand why anybody could be flabbergasted… this franchise has a curse on it
Skins Fan '77 - January 18, 2012
well we got brian orakpo a couple years ago
when all thought he’d be gone
we somehow messed up the okung thing
and somehow got right the Kerrigan thing
I’d say all and all we’ve been pretty luck these last few years (the book is still out on Trent)
jbh1190 - January 18, 2012
How did we mess up the Okung thing? Trent has played in more games then him even w/ the suspension.
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
We have to wait one more year
Before we can claim victory or defeat in the Williams/Okung decision.
Right now, I think it is a dead heat
Skins Fan '77 - January 18, 2012
hindsight
it would be better to have traded down
Redskin44 - January 18, 2012
Yup, but I definitely was not going to second-guess taking a tackle
We needed one bad, just like this year… wait… WTF?
Skins Fan '77 - January 18, 2012
Oh I agree with all that
Is just that the stars never seem to align for us in the draft, but we do get lucky (it seems) sometimes.
Skins Fan '77 - January 18, 2012
The war room has changed in the past couple of years from what it used to be
Danny: “Shit Vinny, its Tagliabue again, who should we pick.”
Vinny: “I’m tired of him calling, just tell him to grab us a WR and give away our other picks to someone”
Parks Smith - January 18, 2012
i'm so anxious for this draft i wish it was combine time
jbh1190 - January 18, 2012
The war room has definitely improved
But I am not ready to call it anything but average at this point
Skins Fan '77 - January 18, 2012
And just look at what has happened to our top end talent
these last few years.
Sean Taylor
Carlos Rogers
Laurent Landry
too many players with short careers here
Skins Fan '77 - January 18, 2012
dont make me cry
jbh1190 - January 18, 2012
Sorry
But you have to admit, it does make it look like we have the luck of the Irish (and that is not a good thing)
that is my short list, I could’ve hit you with a longer one
Skins Fan '77 - January 18, 2012
maybe its time for a name change and a move back to dc
jbh1190 - January 18, 2012
yeah. the indians put a curse on us after snyder won the court battle over the name.
we either have to change the name or hire a which doctor to lift the curse and to help with all the groin and hammy pulls our players get every year at the worst times
munson21502 - January 18, 2012
how is it that our best player in years dies
our CB magically goes elsewhere and gets his eyes hands fixed
we get shuler and he decides he doesn’t like football anymore…kinda
so then we get johnson years later turns out we don’t like him he wins a superbowl later on
we let stephen davis go
one of the best CBs ever hates playing here and we trade him for a diva
and we miss on the biggest free agent signing ever (literally and money wise)
did i miss anything recent?
jbh1190 - January 18, 2012
oh forgot to mention
i had a chance to buy a leather helmet signed by sammy baugh for 250 bucks….i didn’t a week later he died.
jbh1190 - January 18, 2012
You must have some Irish blood in you
Thank goodness I only a quarter Irish, I don’t think I could survive anymore
Skins Fan '77 - January 18, 2012
Depends on what you call reset…
LaVar Arrington-five year player
Chris Samuels early retirement
every quarterback we ever let go seems to go to the Super Bowl with someone else
fat Albert
Okay, this is getting depressing, let’s not do this anymore
Skins Fan '77 - January 18, 2012
So dont mention
Desmond Howard
Ron Gardner
Mike Westbrook
Kennard Lang
Andre Johnson
Tom Carter
Redskin44 - January 18, 2012
more frustrating was Barkely staying
But you never know what type of talent you can get in the late 1st, 2nd or 3rd. Remeber Darrell Green went with the last pick of the 1st rd
Redskin44 - January 18, 2012
yeah forgot that too.
jbh1190 - January 18, 2012
i seen this coming
thats why i wented to lose out after the 6 game losing streak. then we go and win in seattle a place our playoff teams couldnt do. then sweep the giants for the first time in forever… it really sucks be in a bad spot like this i would glad give back those last 2 wins if we could. but we are stuck where we are and have to hope we get lucky for a change
munson21502 - January 18, 2012
Here’s my thought on Flynn
If we signed him to a deal, it would free up the #6 overall to use on a CB, Tackle or another position of need.
If Griffin then somehow fell to us, I would think we could trade the pick (I don’t think we would draft Griffin after signing Flynn), most likely including a 1st rounder in 2013 in the process.
We see where the Flynn train takes us this year, along with our full arsenal of draft picks this year alongside Flynn. If Flynn falters as the starter year 1, then the Redskins (barring already being in position) trade their 2 first rounders to draft [insert hot qb prospect] in the 2013 draft, which is dealing from a position of strength (really using cash to make a purchase opposed to a credit card).
If Shanahan received assurances from Snyder that his job would survive Flynn potentially failing, then as a fan I could get on board with this. Taking this approach, you could still take a 3rd to 5th round flyer on Weeden or someone in that range this year and have Flynn and a developmental guy as well.
This is all theoretical. I expect we will trade up for RGII, but if we sign Flynn, I just think it will mean the front office has moved past Griffin.
jamesumd - January 18, 2012
so let me get this straight, I just want to be clear...
you are suggesting signing Flynn to a big $$$ contract, guaranteeing him here for at least three years, pick Weeden in the draft, trade up next year to get one of the hot picks and hoping one of these guys steps out of the cloud of dust….
I don’t think in this salary cap era, this is how teams are built. FOs pick their guy and build around him. If he fails, the team suffers, FO / coaching staffs are fired and the process starts all over again.
I appreciate your input, but I am not sure you gave it the time to think it through…
jgibbsfan1 - January 18, 2012
you just cant waste that kinda money or cap space on a QB project and think you just gonna dump him a year into it.
If you sign Flynn he is gonna be the QB for at least 3 seasons. so then you gonna trade 2 number 1 picks in 2013 for a top QB prospect, and also draft a QB project this year in 3rd round. That is money/cap space you wasted along with 2 1st rd picks in 2013 and a 3rd this year.
For all that you might as well just trade up for RG3 this year, it might cost you less
Highspeed30 - January 18, 2012
Everything at this point is pure conjecture
And actually with the new rookie wage scale, there is much more flexibility to keep a high priced vet and a highly drafted player at the same position.
There is speculation the Cards might try to get out from under Kolb after everything they traded for him. I don’t think it is that far fetched if Flynn didn’t pan out, they would move on.
jgibbsfan said in this era " FOs pick their guy and build around him. If he fails, the team suffers, FO / coaching staffs are fired and the process starts all over again."
If McNabb and even Haynesworth are any indication, Shanahan doesn’t have an issue cutting loose guys pretty early on.
jamesumd - January 18, 2012
only if ?
we dont get griffin plus we can see where foles or tanneyhill lands i think flynn is legit but we all thought heath schuler was legit to. all i know is we cant go into next year with sexy rexy as the starter
lohaus#54 - January 20, 2012
Flynn or RGB III
Skins need a QB, we all know that. However, if RGB III was guaranteed to fall to #6 then I would say great, draft him and see how it goes. However, trading away picks just to move up to grab a QB that might work out is not worth it. I would rather keep #6 and either draft Kalil, Blackmon or another needed piece and trade for Flynn for say a #4 (or sign him if he was released). The Skins are a mess because we traded away 1st and 2nd round picks to grab players. Flynn is worth the gamble with a 4th round pick (and imagine if you add Kalil to the line or Blackmon to the reciever corp), RGB III is not worth what the Rams would want.
WSK - January 20, 2012
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