1. I appeared on Danny Rouhier's show this past Saturday on 106.7 The Fan and we spoke about the various quarterback plans the Redskins could pursue this offseason. As you would expect, I pressed my trade-down plan, which was not the most popular idea I have offered on their air (that honor goes to my 2009 promise that Kevin would spend all of his free time covering every Devin Thomas photo shoot) . I went all in with my "trade down, take a flier on a quarterback this year and if he doesn't work out, use the added ammo in the 2013 draft to trade up."
2. Danny's biggest question at the end was simply, "Does this fanbase possess the patience for that?" He wanted to know if I thought this fanbase could withstand another year (or years) of uncertainty at the quarterback spot. That is a very fair question, as we can, should and do think about ourselves with regard to the evolution of the Redskins. Put simply, I believe the fanbase will support the continued development of the roster as long as Bruce Allen continues to find serviceable players into the fourth round and beyond.
3. The trail of tears that is the last decade or so for Redskins fans might dictate for some that we do whatever it takes to break the cycle of misery NOW. I know I could use some wins and some positive momentum, but I am most interested in seeing the Redskins become a good team for the next 10-15 years or longer. My concern is that we could miss an opportunity to cement the foundation for a team built to win for the long haul by either trading up in this draft or reaching for a passer in this draft.
4. Longevity should be our main goal. I am no longer interested in making the moves necessary to spark a one-year playoff run. It is fool's gold, and Redskins fans have been served heaping piles of it in recent years. Sure, whenever we are able to bring in a franchise quarterback, we will be a lot closer to the goal of longevity, but for that quarterback to have a chance, there has to be a lot more in place around him than what we have now.
5. On one hand, it isn't that I don't care if we suffer through what is essentially a two-year plan that I am proposing from here. After all, Shanahan and Allen have already been here for two years. I do care, because I am among the suffering. But I also understand what it means to be down for a LONG TIME. One more year of foundation-building after all of the shenanigans that have transpired here is hardly a tipping point. If we truly believe in Bruce Allen, then we should be happy to let him bring in one more sizable draft class full of guys who are capable of becoming career Redskins.
6. Further, since when has the Redskins organization truly considered the feelings of the fans while planning its actions? Granted, there have been a few moves made over the years that were ostensibly driven by a desire to appease the fanbase. How did that work out for us? I would sure hate to see this team sacrifice some of the momentum being made to execute a move that is designed more to sell tickets and make fans happy than to win games for the long haul. Wins would make happy. Genuine contention would make me happy. I am not convinced that trading away three or four potential starters for one rookie quarterback sets us up with the ability to contend for years to come.
7. Do I think that drafting Robert Griffin III would be more about selling tickets than winning games for the next ten years? How about I just say that it is a concern I have. That said, I think RG3 is going to be a very good NFL player. I think he is capable of coming in and starting right away. I just worry about any quarterback's chance to thrive in this offense right now, and acquiring the rights to draft Griffin will likely deplete the necessary resources to build core components of our offense--line and wide receiver specifically.
8. As Kevin rightfully points out, the decision to roll with John Beck and Rex Grossman in 2011 hardly smacks of a plan to make moves specifically to sell tickets. You could argue that anything they do at the quarterback position would likely draw fans. (Put down your phone Jeff George.)
9. We can't--and shouldn't--be afraid to pull the trigger on players that have the full faith of Shanahan and Allen to change the fate of our team. I am not opposed to the idea of trading up--at some point. I am not opposed to the idea of making Shanahan and Allen earn their money and pick the players we need. I just want one more year of stockpiling picks to get the foundation of this team set for years to come. You won't get any argument out of me when it comes to the fact that you need a very, very good quarterback to be a very, very good team. Our need there is undeniable, and gambling a top pick at some point on a quarterback is inescapable. I just see too many other needs that could be solidly addressed this year ahead of that decision. If we did put it off for another year, we are talking about a potentially miserable extra year to this plan.
10. That extra year could likely result in us suffering through more disappointment and heartache. It could likely result in us being back here in the same place next January, debating the merits of trading up to get Barkley, or whichever other college quarterbacks have risen to top tier status. But if Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan are successful in identifying quality players with the additional picks we would receive by trading down, we could be in for a long run of success. Perennial winners are built from the ground up. That takes more than just one good draft, as well as the ability to fight off the temptation to speed things up by trading away a bunch of future picks. Put a different way--I believe that if Bruce Allen trades down in this draft and makes the most of the acquired picks, we would likely be in a position to begin comparing the way our team is built to the way the best teams in the league are built. Growing pains could cause a little sustained misery for us, but wouldn't the progress be obvious enough to allow hope to become the predominant sentiment? Why should our misery drive the decision now?
1 recs | 102 comments
Call the Hospital
Agree with the ten yard fight and everything Ken stated…with the key being I really want the
even if it takes another 5 years…or this year. Whatever happens stay focused on the long term and do what is best to establish the dynasty!dr WNC - January 25, 2012
bravo
This is something that needs to be considered by Shabby. Build some more on the OL, WR and CB. Need depth in too many places.
pfhokie - January 25, 2012 via Android app
I am sure they have already considered all their options...
they have already laid out their plans; they know better the state of this franchise, in regards to their vision of it. This year is the tipping point of the Shanahan/Allen regime. If either plan is implemented, and the results are similar to last years, we will be on the right track to be successful (either QB comes in and IS THE MAN or foundation is solidified, QB next year).
Now, if the players do not continue to develop or aren’t what the FO thought they were, then the team continues to struggle and heads roll. I am in the trade-up camp, but I believe that the plans have already begun to be implemented…
jgibbsfan1 - January 25, 2012
Well said.
I fully agree.
TheDeepBall - January 25, 2012
This. Nicely Put, I think this sums up the entire QB debate we've all been having
We should trust in Bruce and Mike to get their guy. So no matter if they trade up or trade down, or stay put, we should trust that the players they select in the draft are those they believe will best lead to the long term success of the Franchise. I hope our FO moves into this draft with this line of thinking.
StephanHart - January 25, 2012
+ 1,000,000,000
thanks Ken.
just the thought of giving away 2 first round picks and 2 nd round picks for 1 guys makes me nauseous.
Rodskins - January 25, 2012 via Android app
+1
StephanHart - January 25, 2012
It just seems like the EXACT opposite of what we should be doing at this point....but in Shanny we trust
StephanHart - January 25, 2012
We would not be giving up 3 extra, top picks to only move up four spots. At most 1st next year and 1 2nd.
Kevin Ewoldt - January 25, 2012
At the end of the day we all want the same thing
Long term success. I am on the trade up side of things but if we were to trade down I’m not going to be pissed. I trust in whatever they end up doing. The fact that everyone is so passionate about their opinions leads me to believe the fanbase can survive
Bryan Black - January 25, 2012 via Android app
were not everyone
were 50 dudes and like 2 girls.
jbh1190 - January 25, 2012
speaking of 2 girls...
haven’t heard from them in a while…
jgibbsfan1 - January 25, 2012
You should be using this in all your articles.
Kevin Ewoldt - January 25, 2012
Look at Kevin getting some love today...
you might not even need the internet tonight!
Ken Meringolo - January 25, 2012
Hahaha
That joke (I know, I know, with Kevin it’s not a joke) earned my Rec.
UkRedskin - January 25, 2012
Disagree
A QB’s development is the most important component the “franchise guy”. RGIII can come in an sit for the first half of the season if need be, but that process does not need to take place in a sterile vacuum. By that I mean….all of the pieces DO NOT have to be in place before you get THE guy. Having the franchise guy can help those things fall into place.
1. Playing with Rex as a QB can stunt the development of the rest of the team because losing comes with a two turnover per game average.
2. RGIII should be dynamic enough a a play maker that free agents will want to come and won’t expect a kings ransom to do so. If you’re Dwayne Bowe….do you really want to come in an play with Rex as the QB?
3. QB’s can make a bad OL (i.e. Green Bay) look good and poor skill players look great (i.e. Peyton Manning, Jay Cutler, etc.)
So development of a team does not necessarily require the best skill players or an elite OL. Before Brady the team was not the team you see today, before manning the Colts were not the Colts, before the Brees, before Rothlisberger, before Eli……you get the picture?
Copious 1 - January 25, 2012
I think the difference is that you have to look at the state of the franchise
no team is ever perfect and you’re never going to be able to address every single weakness before getting a QB. That said we’re a team without depth and in transition. Now is not the time to trade away picks.
Also, of the QB’s you mentioned I don’t believe there were any big trade moves made to acquire any of them except for Eli.
SkinsOsTerps - January 25, 2012
Agree and not what I was saying
If the right QB was available last year per Shanny then they should have got the QB last year, longevity being make the moves to get the “franchise” QB or make the moves to continue building a team…it may not be able to occur in the same year as long as a long term plan is in place for future dominance not the “vinny view” we are a playoff team this year…this year…this year…this year. Build a damn team and be a playoff team.
dr WNC - January 25, 2012
I don't dispute that there are multiple sequences to how and when you bring in core players/quarterbacks
I think I have been arguing my main point is that we would have to sacrifice multiple starters for one one starter. I am not in favor of that this year. We are painting different pictures. Both potentially lead to long-term success. I just favor my picture over yours.
Ken Meringolo - January 25, 2012
And what to do about QB until then?
My perspective is this. It may cost 3 draft picks this year to move up for the QB. But moving up next year, as the team will improve with the influx of talent via free agency and the draft, will cost significantly more picks, the same with the year after. So you’re ultimately going to give up more by trading up next year or the year after for a QB close to the talent level coming out of college of RGIII. But at any rate…..what is your QB option besides trading up?
Copious 1 - January 25, 2012
Trading up into the top 10 is expensive, and it starts out with an expensive floor...but the ceiling only goes so high
StephanHart - January 25, 2012
I'm with you Copious1
Ken I see your point, but I see the other side as well. One way to look at it is this:
$1 today is not the same as $1 tomorrow (from a finance standpoint). As time and depreciation kick in, you will have to give up more tomorrow to equal today’s $1.
In addition, we have to learn to live for today…we have no idea what the team will look like next off season. What if we lose more critical pieces…do we again, push the QB back until those needs are filled?
At some point, we have to just take the leap of faith and KNOW that we are going to land on our feet…but being scared to get “THE guy” is not how to build a winning team. Additionally, there are “X” factors that no one has mentioned. For example, what if a lack of true faith in Rex caused players not to give 100%…but the “Changing of the Guards” to a QB whom they can fully believe in will bring out a fire that has been suppressed.
All I am saying is that we don’t know how this will affect the team…but we have to make every good effort to try and get the best guys here!
Legacee - January 26, 2012
If we are successful trading back and adding picks
I favor taking a flier on one of the “next best” guys like Tannehill, Foles, or even Ostweiler and throwing him to the wolves next season. If he works out, great. If he doesn’t, use the extra picks in 2013 draft to grab the blue-chipper.
Ken Meringolo - January 26, 2012
I see your point
But, you are assuming that we are going to be in a position to use our 1 and the extra pick from trading back (if we can get a future 1st) to get the guy we want…next year there will be a whole new batch of teams in need of a Franchise QB…and honestly, I am very tired of being the only constant on that list…lets get our guy and turn the page.
Legacee - January 26, 2012
I agree on all counts
though as I’ve stated before I’d be fine with taking a second tier guy with our second rounder. I just don’t think trading up makes sense right now.
SkinsOsTerps - January 25, 2012
I don't know
Yet if I am in the “trade up” camp. I have not seen a definitive on what exactly we would be giving up. However, I am in the “we NEED a quarterback” camp. And not just for my benefit. Truthfully, I could go with your trade down and stockpile plan if not for one thing – the bad Dan Snyder.
Whether we want to admit it or not, we’ve seen the good Dan Snyder these last two years. Well, I’m not convinced the evil spirits have been purged from him yet. And I think all it will take for them to rise to the top is another year of futility with still no answer at quarterback. The “wait til next year” mantra can only last so long. We did it last year, and now we are stuck in a pickle with our prospects. What happens if we wait until next year, and the guys coming out all of a sudden don’t look as promising, for one reason or another, as they do now? Regardless, I really don’t think Shanny would survive that long. And if Bad Danny returned, what of Bruce Allen? Is he replaced by Vinny “Jason Voorhees” Cerrato? Can we really say that’s not a possibility?
There are a lot of things I don’t like about Mike Shanahan, both before, and since we hired him. I’m also of the mindset that there are better personnel guys out there than Bruce Allen. BUT, what I do like about both of those guys is that Snyder put his trust in them, and allowed them to lock Bad Danny in a deep, dark room. So I will tolerate both men, root hard for their success, and hope they remain here until the days brighten. I’m just not sure that happens after another 6-10 season with Rex Grossman/Kyle Orton/David Garrard/Matt Leinhart etc, etc, at quarterback.
CJHutch - January 25, 2012
The fact of the matter is this
You talked about longevity as being the most important goal.
The key is that the longevity can be achieved with multiple QB routes.
For example, if we trade up for RG3, we need to focus on the foundational pieces in FA. Form that solid OL, get that secondary help.
If we get Matt Flynn, draft for longevity.
If we dont get RG3 or go for Flynn, maybe trade down from #6, get Foles or Tannenhill, or Weeden. But regardless of who that QB might be, we can still make longevity-based decisions at every other position.
It’s fun to argue RG3 vs Flynn vs Rex vs Tanenhill vs Weeden. But honestly, no matter what option we go for (including Weeden and the lower guys), we we focus on all the other positions in the same way we did this year, we are still advancing ourselves much further as a team.
If we shore up the entire team, and get Weeden, great. We might need a new QB in about 5 years, but thats is a VERY VERY solid team going into those 5 years. That can afford to get a QB later.
tman5 - January 25, 2012
I don't understand the Weeden bandwagon
It’s a cool story but I’d really be shocked if he hasn’t already hit his ceiling.
SkinsOsTerps - January 25, 2012
FA doesn't work
jbh1190 - January 25, 2012
That's a kind of ignorant blanket statement
Josh Wilson worked. Stephen Bowen worked. Adam Carriker worked.
FA is not THE (single) solution. But FA, for any franchise, is always a piece of the puzzle. That being said, it must obviously be approached with reason.
Especially when we have to spend 90% of the salary cap.
tman5 - January 25, 2012
FA doesn't work
most of the time for us over the last 20 yrs….
other teams players don’t work out here most of the time see most recently Donovan McNabb Albert Haynesworth Rex Grossman (wait he didn’t work anywhere)
jbh1190 - January 25, 2012
Donovan was traded for, Rex was actually a good value signing, Albert is the worst FA signing in history, but he wasn't signed by this regime
The fact of the matter is that teams need FA’s. This administration has shown a propensity thus far to pick fairly good FA acquisitions. While a team shouldnt build through FA or exclusively depend on it, FA signings are a necessary part of building an NFL team
StephanHart - January 25, 2012
+1
Ronnie Adkins - January 25, 2012
This is a different coachign staff and front office than the last 20 years
The majority of their FA signing in the last two years have been good (McNabb being the main exception).
Every team NEEDS FAs. How you do it is based on the competency of your staff.
Our staff has been going young and talented and hungry, rather than old an dwindling.
tman5 - January 25, 2012
Now because we're overdue
With each year where WAS overspent on free agents, Skins nation was put through the yearly thought that ‘this is the year’. Because of that, patience was thin due to high expectations. After yearly let downs, fans started to realize that the problem started at the top.
All of this changed when Shanahan and Allen were hired. Skins nation saw that they were installing a culture change of adding youth and building depth through FA and the draft and not overspending for FA vets. This is something that fans always knew should’ve been done all along, but we don’t write the checks.
Because of what Shanahan has brought to the Skins, fans have increased their patience. They realized that he inherited a dysfunctional organization with no draft picks. Despite that, fans always knew the QB position was going to be addressed at some point.
In year 1, fans believed that McNabb had some gas left in the tank, but you know how that went. In year 2, fans put their faith in Shanahan and his belief in Rex/Beck despite some hesitation. Obviously, we know how that went as well, but our expectations of them were already low believing that a franchise QB will be found to begin year 3.
So why not now? You’re right as we could wait another year – add more youth and depth and give a new QB everything to be successful. This only sounds good if it was a 100% guarantee that WAS could find themselves in the position to draft their guy next year.
Come to think of it – aren’t they already in a position to draft their guy? They may have to trade up and compete with other teams, but won’t they have to do that in any draft?
rcboulter - January 25, 2012
I think your last point is extremely valid, and I do believe we will need to trade up to get a franchise qb
That is why I favor trading down this year to add picks—hopefully—to our draft next year. Then we would have aome additional ammo to trade up with that we could use instead of multiple picks in future drafts.
Ken Meringolo - January 25, 2012
Moreover the 1st round QB pool should be much larger next year, ripe for the pickins if we have extra picks
StephanHart - January 25, 2012
But...
You are assuming that we are still bad enough to only need a few picks to move up…
No on has a crystal ball to see that. Who knew the cults would be the #1 pick at this time last year? There are so many things that can and will happen, and we have more to lose (by planning for next year) than we would if we would simply seize the day!
Legacee - January 26, 2012
the problem with doing that is what do you think you going to recieve in compensation for trading down this year???
It sounds wonderful if you could twist a teams arm drafting behind the Skins to give up a 2013 1st rd pick to move into the 6 spot. but that most likely is not going to happen. And Futher more you suggest taking a flier in the 2nd rd on a QB with the intent on picking a Top QB prospect in 2013 and by trading up most likely. so in reality you are throwing away a 2nd rd pick this year on a QB you really dont believe will work out, and then having to use a 1st rd pick next year and whatever else to trade up to get your Real Franchise guy?? It just dont make a whole lot of sense cause you are still spending draft pick on the same QB position, with doing all of that you might as well trade up this year and move forward with RG3 or Luck cause they IMO are better prospects than any of next years QB’s
Highspeed30 - January 25, 2012
trading up youd lose 3 or 4 picks
not 1
jbh1190 - January 25, 2012
if you swap pick this year 2012 then you are getting a QB
then you would have to send the Redskins 2012 2nd rd pick , and 2013 1st rd and maybe a 3rd or 4th. For a trade up scenario for RG3,(i would make a call about Luck but i dont think he is for sale)
that is about the same as you drafting a Tannehill/Foles in the 2nd rd in 2012 with the plan of drafting a Top rated QB in 2013 with your 1st rd pick plus 2nd rd and 4th to trade up for top QB in 2013.
you using a 2012 2nd rd pick and 2013 1st rd plus 2nd and 4th to move up for Top QBin 2013(Barkley,Bray, Jones)
with doing all that you might as well just trade up this year and spen the same or less
2012 2nd and 2013 1st(since most are planning on getting a QB with next year first anyway) and 3rd
Highspeed30 - January 25, 2012
I'
Al_CaPWNED - January 25, 2012
Lets try that again
I’m kind of with you rcboulter. In the last 5 years i’ve gone from having season tickets, to going to going to a handful of games, and last year I went to 1 game and only because it was free.
I really have no desire to watch rex grossman at qb anymore. I’m excited about some of the other prospects we have but I think our offense will remain retarded until we get a decent qb.
If we end up with manning i’m going to just convert to LFL.
Al_CaPWNED - January 25, 2012
I have already converted to LFL...
jgibbsfan1 - January 25, 2012
Hell of a television product
StephanHart - January 25, 2012
what channel is it on!?
I had no idea it was on tv..
Al_CaPWNED - January 25, 2012
Believe it comes on spike tv
StephanHart - January 25, 2012
Good ole family fun, right there
Ronnie Adkins - January 25, 2012
The real question is: does Dan Snyder have the patience?
And only Dan can answer that question.
aFan4Life - January 25, 2012
i think he does
he’s not dumb…..jgibbsfan thinks otherwise though
jbh1190 - January 25, 2012
I hope you're right
but Snyders past doesn’t indicate that he has much patience. He fired Schottenheimer after 1/2 a season which was a great deal for the Chargers but sucked for us.
aFan4Life - January 26, 2012
I've thought for a while now
That it’s unlikely we stay at 6. I think at this point, we’ll either find a way to move up to get RG3, or drop down and pick up some more picks.
One thing I will say with regards to trading down, there is plenty of really nice prospects in the mid first-mid second round range. If the Redskins could manage to get 3 (or even 4 with a double trade back like the Browns last year) picks in that sort of range, they could all turn out to be very good starters for us early next year and vastly improve the overall roster.
UkRedskin - January 25, 2012
My hope is that we trade down a few times and then get Weedon in the 3rd
This gives us a great situation: If Weedon bombs out or is mediocre, we only spent a 3rd round pick and we have plenty of ammo to address the QB position in a big way the following year.
If Weedon turns out to be any good, we will be set at QB for 5+ seasons for the price of a 3rd round pick, and we can use the extra garnered picks to continue the rebuild and plan for a future big splash on a QB.
StephanHart - January 25, 2012
I only saw Weedon play one game, but the Stanford coaches did not want to get involved in a shootout with him.
I suppose they realized that Luck and their receivers (including TEs) plus their defense were not a good matchup.
The question is whether the Skins would have a good enough set of receivers and OL to contend in the NFL. The 2011 defense plus some front 3 depth and improved DB is good enough to contend.
Jefferson1935 - January 25, 2012
If we were targeting Weeden
We would have 1st and 2nd round picks to bolster the WR and OL.
Round 1: Blackmon, or trade back to pick 9-13 and get Floyd or Jefferies
Round 2: Best right tackle available.
Round 2 (if traded back in 1st): Interior OL, or CB,
Round 3: Weeden
tman5 - January 25, 2012
Honestly
I would be extremely excited with a draft like that
tman5 - January 25, 2012
Ha, love that you're so excited with your own draft scenario
StephanHart - January 25, 2012
Unless Blackmon falls
Blackmon might be the top 6 guy we would take there. I don’t think CB is a big enough of an issue right now to take Claiborne, and Richardson is a no need.
tman5 - January 25, 2012
I'd like to trade down, but...
you have to have someone who wants to trade up. With Luck, Kalil, RGIII, Blackmon and Claiborne most likely gone, there may not be anyone worthy for another team to trade up to get unless the Skins take the short end of the stick. That’s not a good place to be.
But I hate the idea of trading 2 1st’s and a 2nd, at least, to get the 2nd-best QB in the draft. If you want to toss in a bit more, just go talk to Indy instead.
44ever - January 25, 2012
Both points well made
Finding someone to trade with will be hard—but one way to help ourselves out is by being willing to deviate from the “Trade Value Chart” and focus on getting the best deal available. If we add multiple picks that turn into starters, I simply don’t care if people say we didn’t “get good enough value.”
Also, I couldn’t agree more about Luck needing to be part of this conversation. If Manning is healthy, the Colts have to be at least willing to consider trading the pick. They have many holes themselves.
Ken Meringolo - January 25, 2012
Lots of good points
I would be happy to trade back for a 1st in 2013 and possibly a 2nd for 2012 to build depth. We could bring in Weeden and sit rex at back up. Use maybe the two 1st’s in next years draft for barkley or wilson or whoever. I am not ok with starting rex for any reason. i dont care if he knows the system. beck should be released period. go sell insurance or become a politician or something.
ipitydafu - January 25, 2012
For the record, I’m okay with either trading up for a franchise QB or trading down to stockpile more quality Redskins. But I have just one question about trading down.
You said:
My question is- what prevents this from being the same argument next year and the year after? What makes “one final draft class” the difference between us being a legit contender with a QB vs. still a fraud with a QB? How do we know that it is not two, three, or eighteen more sizable draft classes that would be optimal before making the big splash push for a QB? I just want to make sure that we don’t delay making a move for a franchise QB unnecessarily, and on the same token, if we do delay it- I want to make sure that we do not rush into it too soon either. But where is that optimal point…
preppiejack - January 25, 2012
exactly
aFan4Life - January 26, 2012
There is no avoiding the inevitable moment where we have to make a decision
Shanny and Allen get paid a lot of money to be right on that. I feel like if we got serious for one more year about bringing 7-8 guys who could make the team and contribute in year one, I would be fine making the 2013 draft the year we throw all caution to the wind and stake a claim to whomever is sitting at the top of the draft.
I am not opposed to ever trading up, and Bruce and Shanny ultimately have to take a gamble sooner rather than later. So I say mark your calendars for a huge trade up in 2013.
Ken Meringolo - January 26, 2012
I'm on board with this.
tuckwell - January 27, 2012
Now is the time
I keep reading that we will be giving up 2 1st’s and a 2nd to move up to #6.
We will actually be giving up this years 2nd and next years 1st (since we are not actually giving up a 1st this year if we are getting the 2nd pick in the draft).
Will that really set us back that far?
Think about it… We didn’t even get a chance to see our 2nd round pick this year because of injury and I can honestly say that we improved as a team.
I think RGIII will bring excitement to a team that desperately needs it. Look what Cam Newtown did for Carolina this year. They are in need of alot more players than we are, but he energized that entire organization. And their future looks bright, because of him.
Not sure if RGIII will compare to Newtown, but I think its time to take that chance.
You might as well do it this year, because hopefully next year we will not be picking this high in the draft. And to move up next year, it will take a lot more ammo.
Not sure if this is the right thing to do, but it is just my opinion.
Shep872 - January 25, 2012
+1 It will cost more to get a QB next year.
We all know QB is our biggest need.The Redskins trading back is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.
As it stands right now we don’t have anything to build around on offense. Now is the time to trade up for our franchise QB and build around his strengths.
JeanBaptiste - January 25, 2012
What we need is a SUPERSTAR
RGIII will put butts in the seats and bring in better FA, like Bowe or Colston.
And hope that we can find more gems later in the draft like last year.
Sounds like a plan to me,
Shep872 - January 25, 2012
Two years is right...
Ken’s point #5 pretty much hits the nail on the head- we’re looking at a two year plan. This means Shanny and Co. have the 2012 and 2013 draft build a competitive base of talent. The 2012 season may be a duplicate of 2011, but there better be noticeable improvement by the 2013 season.
Why? Shanny has flunked in. I said this on another post, but I think it’s true. The combination of poor talent, turmoil, bad decisions, etc., makes the Redskins the new Bengals/Lions until they prove otherwise. I think Snyder finally understands this. He has to stick with Shanny because the the last thing this franchise needs is more instability. If Snyder doesn’t show patience here, he’ll never be able to land any big-name coaches or FAs in the future. Snyder has to show that the Redskins franchise can be a stable environment where coaches and players can succeed.
So we stay put at 6 or trade down. We can’t give up the farm for one player. Our talent level is in the bottom third of the league (I think it’s bottom five, but that’s beside the point). Look at Pro Football Focus’ analysis of our FAs- our highest rated FA is a 36 year-old middle linebacker that came to this team as a FA. That says it all. And don’t tell me Fred Davis is the 2nd coming of John Mackey, either…
tjkinva - January 25, 2012
WHY IS IT NEXT YEAR AND NEXT YEAR?
Why not go after the QB this year instead of always next year after next year , this is all i ever hear is next year . Well its been over 20 next years and still waiting and 23 QBs since then , so why not stop this merry go round and get a good QB instead of next year. We go out and get a good defensive player with a hight draft pick right ? why not go after our franchise QB ? yea i know we might have to give a lil extra in draft picks but think of this , lets say we win more games next year and pick at 15 instead of 6 ? well then we would have to trade more picks away just to move up so what sense would that make right ? just move up this year and start filling in the pieces around this QB hopefully RG3 the guy can run and buy time with his ability until we can protect him better and he can grow into the QB position on top of it , just get the main guy we need now not later because if thats the case we will be waiting later for another 20 years just bitching about getting a good QB . I for one do not want to SEE another 23 QBs come in hear in start for our team . If you wanna take a page from the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS BOOK maybe we might start WINNING FOR ONCE . They have no problems running a good team , they are a well oiled team that works together and they dont have guys smoking pot or getting in trouble and if they do get in trouble then they will kick them out like albert haynesworth or randy moss . We just need to get our act together and stop the bullshit and shut up and work hard period then we might have a good team and Getting RG3 with his background would be one hell of a leader for our team for years to come .
washingtonwin - January 25, 2012
My point exactly
Shep872 - January 25, 2012
THANK YOU
At least someone can see what im talking about .
washingtonwin - January 25, 2012
Preach!
JeanBaptiste - January 25, 2012
because
Mike Shanahan has only had 1 real draft. Jim Zorn picked up a trigonometry book when he meant to grab a coloring book, and Joe Gibbs made us old from the first time he was here. We’ve never really gotten younger in the past 20 years. Its time to start really overhauling this roster in a good way. We can’t do that with 4 picks in a draft. And I am absolutely opposed to giving anything up next year. That’s like going into Christmas knowing your not getting one of your best gifts.
Speaking of Christmas lets look at it this way.
For Christmas we want a brand new Xbox360
But the store is out of Xbox360’s.
Our parents can buy one for the cost of 2 Xbos360’s but then we can’t get any games till next year.
or
We can get all of our games this year
and get our xBox next year.
jbh1190 - January 25, 2012
so basically we'll have xBox
that doesn’t play, and we overpaid for
or games with nothing to play on
jbh1190 - January 25, 2012
It's a flawed comparison
Think about it like a race car. We can get a fantastic engine this year, but still have worn out tires, bad brakes and a busted suspension. Yeah, we can go fast, but we can’t control it or stop.
Or, we use a less fancy engine, but put in a new suspension (o-line), upgrade the brakes (DBs) and put new racing slicks on it (WR). It won’t go as fast, but I bet it wins more races.
tuckwell - January 25, 2012 via iPhone app
I just feel like the Redskins have some pieces to work with and a Top QB prospect can work with
Roy Helu showed ability to run and catch out of backfield only guy on offense that can take it the distance whenever he touch the ball.
Evan Royster showed great patience running the ball, was tough between the tackles, a good back for Zone blocking system
Leonard Hankerson showed flashes before he got hurt, tough over the middle and got separation all season but had a case of the drops
Fred Davis showed he is a legit starter and is a match up problem for defenses
T Williams played a lot better last season then in first 2 years
Offensive line overall looked to come together and played a lot better Smith, Hurt, and Polumbus seem to be getting quality reps.
Highspeed30 - January 25, 2012
Smith, Hurt and Polimbus are not NFL starters right now.
Period. We can avoid one oline pick by signing two Gs in FA, but we absolutely need a RT and a G. The guys you listed are ok for depth and emergency starts, but if we’re planning on them from the start, better get ready for a very long season.
tuckwell - January 25, 2012 via iPhone app
not if you are Will Ferrell in Talladega Nights...
he could drive anything.
Speaking of, didn’t he say, “Finishing second is first loser”? I think there is some wisdom in there, somewhere…
jgibbsfan1 - January 25, 2012
to add on again
we could get a regular xBox (tannehill weeden foles) and when we open it up wouldn’t you know we got a 360!!1
jbh1190 - January 25, 2012
you got games to play
Roy Helu, Royster, Hankerson, 3rd rd draft pick WR, FA starting G, Trent Williams, Chris Cooley.
Highspeed30 - January 25, 2012
Thanks a lot Matt Barkley...
I’m now in a position where I have no idea what I would do. Part of me gets the building around the QB and then grabbing one in 2013, but if we start playing just well enough to knock us out of the first round then what? I’m not 100% on knowledge of the draft, but aren’t we in the same position as we are right now? I don’t think a top 3 first round pick falls to us based on how well we are starting to come together by next draft. So what do we do? Trade up for Luck (doubtful he’ll be sold away) or RG3 (who will cost us a bunch probably), or do we pay the price tag for Flynn (which isn’t really a direction I’m interested in paying that much for)? It’s just too early to tell what they may do and that bothers me. The one thing I can say with full assurance is that I wont be driving 5 hours from PA like I did for the Eagles game at FedEx this year. Rex or Beck can’t get the job done, and if we keep Rex as a starter in 2012 then I do worry about the talent around him. Bad reads, interceptions, not being able to hit WR in stride, bad passing down field. Its just too much for my brain. And please tell me that people are joking about Manning in DC?…. sigh.
Jpage0024 - January 25, 2012
I guess to better clarify my question....
Aren’t we going to have to trade up for a QB no matter when we select one?
Jpage0024 - January 25, 2012
Not necessarily
there’s a higher success rate the higher up you go but I don’t believe too many of the top tier quarterbacks in the league right now were acquired via a trade-up in the draft. You just have to be patient and know what you’re doing.
Good QB’s are developed much more than they’re just found.
SkinsOsTerps - January 25, 2012
Well...
I fully trust what Bruce and Mike have done so far minus McNabb (though at the time I may have said different haha), so I guess the waiting game begins.
Jpage0024 - January 25, 2012
or continues....haha
Jpage0024 - January 25, 2012
They did not have to trade for a QB cause a lot had the #1 overall pick or was in a position to get one of the Top 2 QB's in a draft year
it kinda works like this if you have the worst record in the NFL you get the top pick in the draft.
Highspeed30 - January 25, 2012
good QBs are developed but they are also usually 1st round picks
Everyone likes to cite the 3 or 4 examples of QBs who weren’t 1st round draft picks but they are the exception, not the general rule.
It also usually takes 1 or 2 years to develop the QB so waiting until 2013 to draft a QB means we have horrible QB play until 2014 or 2015. Is that a good plan? I don’t think so. Snyder may be patient this year but what is he going to think after the 2014 season when we’re still at 6-10?
We need a QB this year, with or without trading up.
aFan4Life - January 26, 2012
You're main point
Is how longevity is the key to success, and the best way to do that is stockpiling picks and depth. However, a franchise QB gives you that. The Colts were in the playoffs every year for a decade with a shitty team and Peyton Manning. Manning goes down, they’re 2-14. A QB can give us the appearance of not sucking, and giving us wins. If we do trade up, I think it is absolutely, 100% NEEDED to keep this year’s second round draft pick. If we get RG III, we need a solid soon-to-be #1 Wideout (Dwight Jones, Marvin McNutt, Nick Toon) to help him, or a quality lineman (Konz, Sanders, Datko later). Whichever we sign in FA, we draft the other one. If we sign both, still draft one or a CB (Cameron Heyward, Chase Minnifield, etc.)
ripST - January 25, 2012
I THINK THE COLTS
Really threw the games knowing peyton kneck problem was not to good and they sucked for LUCK on purpose . The owner knew if he kept things the way it was they would lose and pick up the number one guy , look how they won 2 games in a row then tanked again YEAH RIGHT . Our team was just as bad if not worse than indys .
washingtonwin - January 25, 2012
I agree with you on getting a WR in this draft if you trade up for RG3
but i think the Wr depth in this draft is very good, and you can get a guy like Marvin McNutt (one of my sleepers) in the 3rd rd, or my favorite sleeper Brian Quick in 3rd(but you may have to move into late 2nd to get Quick. or Jeff Fuller, Juron Criner, AJ Jenkins, or BJ Cunningham all in the 3rd rd. but I believe you gonna have to give up that 2nd rd pick in the RG3 deal.
Highspeed30 - January 25, 2012
WE ALREADY HAVE SOME GOOD WIDE RECIEVERS
If we get RG3 we will have someone to throw to , moss might be old but if you have RG3 he could get the ball to moss and resurect his carreer . We are a few players away from being a good team and if we get RG3 alone we will win 9 or 10 games next year easy .
washingtonwin - January 25, 2012
Go see if you can see Brian Quick on tape, he is a player that can be had in the late 2nd or 3rd rd
plus the Redskins dont have any gamebreakers at WR somebody that can take it to the house if one man miss.
Highspeed30 - January 25, 2012
RG3 is not worth 4-5 games over this years team,
with a harder schedule at that, without massive FA spending on guys that aren’t worth the contracts. AKA, overpaid vets, aka Vinnyball. Not happening.
tuckwell - January 25, 2012 via iPhone app
YOUR MISSING ONE POINT HERE
If you get RG3 now he can by some time with his feet 2nd of all all of these wr we have might be a little better than you think because we finially have a QB that can get them the ball . Id rather trade a few picks away at 6th place than trade a shit load away if we are picking from 15 place . Look you pick a defensive guy last year after trading down why not for once trade up and get your franchise QB worth his weight in gold . But everytime you turn around and say oh we will get our guy next year , well its BEEN NEXT YEAR FOR OVER 20 YEARS and 23 QBs when will it stop why keep getting these SO SO QBs that are not worth crap get a QB from the draft a GOOD one not a second round one . Secound round QBs never work out to good in the first place , just name the secound round QBs that went to the super bowl and won it all ? maybe 1 guy real good track record right ? Just for once SHORE UP THE QB position and be DONE WITH IT . I am sure if we got RG3 and he won for us everyone would jump on the bandwagon as usual . Use our pick to draft up while we are THIS CLOSE AND PICK RG3 we will not regret it i promise you that much . Lets not waste anytime on a QB like peyton manning for what 2 or 3 years if he dont get hurt first and waste our cap money on top of it . Go young stop overpaying for OLD PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING TO GET THERE PAYDAY FOR RETIREMENT FROM our TEAM , this is were we have to STOP PAYING FOR WORTHLESS OLD PLAYERS . Go young build from the draft and if we get anyone from FAs DONT OVERPAY FOR THEM PERIOD .
washingtonwin - January 25, 2012
Read my above reply
tuckwell - January 25, 2012 via iPhone app
If everyone else is reaching for Qbs, is it still a reach or is that just a necessity to get the best chance at the best talents for that position?
Also the notion that supporting cast ruins Qbs is very overblown. Maybe it ruins a Qb with a solid or good potential but it doesn’t happen to the great Qbs. The great Qbs are a conglomeration of the mental aspects (work ethic, toughness) and physical talents. Qbs that had the physical tools but failed to bounce back because of their situations did not have the incredible mental skills it takes to be successful at the highest level.
If RG3 is a “great” prospect then he can overcome 1 or 2 bad years with a weaker supporting cast while still making them better. If he isn’t then the Skins shouldn’t be trading up for him anyway.
Also everything in the draft has risks. Trading back still has plenty of risk for the long term future of the Redskins. If they miss out on the right talent at Qb, then its very likely Shanny will not win consistently enough to stay around after the next 2 years no matter how much he builds up the supporting cast and a rebuilding process will start over with a new coach who will focus on getting the player he wants.
HogtieJim - January 25, 2012
using a lottery analogy, the difference is that trading up is the equivalent of spending 10 bucks on a single ticket with a 10% chance of winning while trading back is like spending 5 bucks on a ticket with a 9% chance of winning, a ticket with an 8% chance of winning, and a ticket with a 7% chance of winning, and you still have 5 bucks left over. A crude analogy to be sure, but I think you get the point.
Anyways, even if we get RG3, if he doesn’t have the right supporting cast the Redskins still won’t win many games and Shanahan will be fired. Oh, and RG3 will start being labelled as a bust, and people will be clamoring for yet another first round QB.
TheDeepBall - January 26, 2012
its not about winning in his first year
by 2013 RG3 would have a a year to learn and be ready to compete in 2013 not learning like a rookie would that you drafted in 2013
Highspeed30 - January 26, 2012
"Perennial winners are built from the ground up."
^ Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!
Stephen Beagrie - January 26, 2012
you can throw me under the bus with the author. I believe RGIII has potential to be a dynamic QB, a game changer. if he is there with pick #6 the skins should take 2 seconds to put the card in.
there are no sure things with qb’s. health shuler was can’t miss at #3, it didn’t work out. we need all out picks, and i see the price as being too high. we have plenty of other needs.
our current misery is due to trying to make splashy moves. we can’t give up multiple high picks for any one person. if Griffin is picked at 2—which i think will happen, pick up claiborne, ashton jeffrey or maybe jonathan martin. russell wilson or nick folkes should be there in round 2.
if barkley had come out, if might be a different story, but it is what it is. don’t do it Bruce.
Chris Molloy - January 26, 2012
Not to tell a man how to run his shop...
but making a trail of tears reference when discussing this football team is probably a poor choice.
TerroristFistJab - January 27, 2012 via mobile
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