Hogs Haven

he's got limited shelf time

so it’s got to be somebody on the verge of winning the SB. I think the Vikings have passed that by (they’re past their peak) but he would still make quite an impact. maybe the Dolphins, Browns or Broncos (imagine Denver with a QB who can throw the ball). What if the 49ers get tired of Alex Smiths mediocrity? Manning at SF would be scary.

Jets.

Manning Mania hits New York.

BillWard - January 3, 2012 reply

yeah i think they are definitely the team for him

if i were them, i would try to trade sanchez to free up some cap room and draft another young stud peyton could mentor

JD For Breakfast - January 4, 2012 reply

Easier said than done!

Who in the hell would trade for Sanchez?

We would for one. Sanchez has value- not as much as other QBs- but it is not zero.

Brian Shottenheimer is the OC, and he is not that good….another coach’s son who never played football.

It's a tough one man, it's totally dependent on his health.

Part of me keeps thinking we’ve seen the last of Manning. I think Irsay is clearly going after Luck with the Polian move yesterday. So I think it comes down to 1) Is Peyton healthy in March 2) Is anyone dumb enough to trade for him (not sure he’d pass a physical) and… 3) Would Peyton restructure.

But I really don’t think he’s healthy.

I think Manning made the contract so that it’s either you keep him or release him, not a chance to trade

Alpha_Red - January 3, 2012 reply

that's what I read also

The timing of the bonus is what is driving the “keep or cut” restriction. In other words, if he isn’t completely healed he’ll be gone. They’d be crazy to pass on Luck.

I would be shocked to hear Peyton did not have a no trade clause.

He will no longer a Colt. Parks is very likely right on his hunch with this one. They will draft Luck or RG3 for sure.

I don't understand why Polian's deptarture makes Luck more likely

Caldwell isn’t a known developer of QBs and Polian didn’t want to trade the pick…he wanted Luck apparently.

Why do you think the opposite? I don’t have the answer, but I am wondering why people think this when all of the reporting goes the other way, including reports of discord between Peyton and Polian.

DavidDunn - January 3, 2012 reply

because polian and manning have a relationship…and a good one. and it created a very awkward scenario for him to tell manning he is going in a different direction after 10+ years of great service and signing a huge extension last year

the owner cleared the way to avoid that awkwardness by bringing in a new gm who does not have a history with peyton that can make that call much more pleasant.

i think we all know you can not give a guy a 28mm dollar roster bonus to a 35 year old qb who had three surgeries in his next, including experimental stem cell surgery, and has not practiced in over a year…when you are sitting on the top pick in the draft deep with rookie qb prospects

we should upgrade GMs today…make the call Danny

that guy has built two separate super bowl winning teams and a took a brand new franchise with no players to the NFC conference championship team. he is one of the best!

I would definately say Buffalo was a dynasty in the 90s and the Colts with Peyton also deserves that dynasty label

that guy has built two separate super bowl winning teams

Two dynasties in two eras (pre/post salary cap) Now that’s impressive

PAinfUL - January 3, 2012 reply

yeah it is a no brainer, really

That's what I read - that the Polians were the ones with

connections to Luck. So my totally uninformed guess was that Irsay wanted to keep Manning, and the Polians wanted Luck, so Irsay had to fire the Polians.

Donnio1234 - January 3, 2012 reply

Nice Mock.

I still hope things work out so we get Griffin.

iH8dallas - January 3, 2012 via mobile reply

hey H8 a few of us wil be in Raleigh to drink and watch the draft....you in?

If it's on a Thursday night again, I can't.

I appreciate the invite and I’d love to, but this lame job gets in the way.

iH8dallas - January 3, 2012 via mobile reply

know what you mean, a few of the boys change every season and it's like they rotate due to jobs, kids...etc.

I've been saying it for a month.

RG3 is going 2nd in the draft via a trade up from either Us, Dolphins, or the Browns. We should have St. Louis on speed dial.

Diesel44 - January 3, 2012 reply

Can't wait to get my Zima case from you

Looking forward to

Diesel44 - January 3, 2012 reply

Being right again and a case of Yuengling.

Diesel44 - January 3, 2012 reply

Damn

Parks is giving away cases of Yuengling. Where do I sign up?

Hey

If you make it Yuengling Lager count me in. It’s made 20 mins from where I live

Yep

Same here.

yup

I think the Skins have the most solid FO out of all those teams.

I’ll give it to Bruce, he can wheel and deal. If they want RG3 that bad they will take him.

iH8dallas - January 3, 2012 via mobile reply

I would NOT trade up at all !!!! For what it would cost us all it would do is set us back from rebuilding. And who knows the guy could be a bust making it really bad idea.

you wouldn't trade up for luck?

for this year’s first second and fourth…next years first third and fourth?

this is y

It could cost as much as 3 1st round picks would you do that ?? I know if I was Mr. Allen I sure wouldn’t

well...3 first rounders really mean 2

because we could get luck. If we were to add grubbs and bowe in free agency…resign fletch, landry and davis; we would have a team that could compete for the East immediately

Not worth it

Really not worth trading 3 1st round picks period if you are willing to do that you will not see that from the skins maybe the browns. If they do I might have to rethink my reasons for rooting for a teams run by complete idiots.

i agree trading picks is ridiculous the way we've done it in the past...

tell me…what position could we address with the next 2 drafts with the first round pick that would not be worth having the highest rated QB since manning? now think about it, you are willing to use free agency to fill a qb hole for a few years so we can draft high at another position. Why not draft high a QB and fill those other areas of need in free agency with smart, young talent?

I am not a Skins Excutive

But if I was I would look at Flynn tape as much as I could to determine if he is what I want. If he isn’t then of course pass. Then you have to look at the draft to fill that hole or ( shutters ) leave Rex there. If it is the draft you could trade up for Luck if you felt your team has very little needs. but we know this not to be true. Besides the difference between us and Indy was they were #1 that year I think ( could be wrong I am too lazy to look ) Just say we do reach and give up just 2 1st round picks a 2nd and 5th over 2 years and he doesn’t do as well as projected. Then we are years behind vers picking with our own picks or trading back to gain more players. That is my mentality of it but it’s just a crap shoot.

It would take longer to watch an episode of Seinfeld...

than it would take to watch Flynn tape.Noone is a sure thing….but Luck is about as close as it gets. It seems that most players don’t bust because of a lack of talent, it’s a lack of work ethic, poor system, or the talent around them is too weak. The addition of grubbs and bowe in free agency would allow this team to have a team that could put lots of points on the board, with a defense in place that could use the rest of a team that can get first downs. QB is one of those positions where elite only comes every 5 years…this is that year

Maybe

Even you said it no one is a lock. Then why are you suggesting we trade away the farm for someone who might not pan out? I rather pick a QB who might fall to us RG3 ( as some mocks have him not that I believe them ) or another. Or even take a chance on Flynn. They all contain risks but lessen the risk is using your own picks not trading away the farm to take 1 risk.

it's not so much trading the farm...

it’s more like a patio garden. There is no lock….but like i said, his scouting grades are through the roof.

If Flynn comes in, we use a 2nd rounder on a guy to groom. Now we’ve spent money that could have given us a pro bowl caliber Olineman and used a 2nd round pick that could have given us a perennial starter at RT. Now we have a backup QB starting and rookie on the bench who will only get developed in the offseason.

but what if you are wrong

and it is two firsts, a second, third and two fourths over two years like was mentioned

i would give that up for andrew luck in a heart beat…he is also on a rookie contract on the new wage scale so you are not guaranteeing him 50mm like stl did with bradford

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

It wouldn't cost that much

Not that Indy is trading the pick. But a very close situation in terms of draft position was the Rivers/Manning deal. SD gave up that years first and third, and the following years first and fifth.

i'm typically opposed to trading up...

but this is an opportunity to get a legit prospect. We could have debates on hogshaven for the next 10-15 years and never have to bring up the likes of matt flynn or tannehill ever ever again.

If that is the case

It still is NOT worth it for a player who might bust and put your rebuilding on hold for 7 years or more

Rather

They take a chance on Flynn and trade down but you are right we know nothing of what they are going to do just what could be done. But I will say it here if they trade up for Luck no matter how good he is I will not believe another word from this front office ever.

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

This is a good policy regardless

I will not believe another word from this front office ever.

I live in CO and have watched Shanny for years. I wouldn’t believe him if he said water was wet.

smoke and mirrors....

also trent and fred’s nicknames

show me the Bust-proof draft pick..

and i’ll buy you a keg of the finest malt liqour in town

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

Ooh, Ooh, I know this one

Andre Johnson?

haha...

i’m guessing your talking about the Redskins Andre Johnson….1st round pick that never played a down for us! WTF

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

Heath Shuler?

Michael Westbrook...

damn the skins have had some bad drafts!

Good choice

Shuler was projected to be a great and look at where he is

sebastian janikowski was a lock down kicker

bust potential was zero

he won the same lou garza award that Gano won...

al davis was a man willing to take a risk…kicker in the first round! haha

Different

Different situation Indy will demand the highest bidder and it may well be 3 1st round picks unless they keep it.

what do you think it will cost to trade up?

and what would you have given up for peyton manning to nab him his rookie year knowing what you know now?

Cleveland, will trade this years 1, 2, 4 & next years 1st.

or this years 1, 2, 3 & next years 2, & 4

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

For two spots?

someone is being a little greedy. Draft chart show Washingtons first and third are more than enough to go from six to four. Cleveland would have to include a 5 or so.

If you noticed, I gave a scenerio that didnt include next years first. The extra picks are more than generous.

Thats also for a higly rated QB, which your team could use right now, more so than my Browns. We dont have half the needed quality players that you already have. Too many years of front office mismanagement.

I bet KC, Seattle and even the puke on myself Boyz(I hope not – I really frickin hate jerry jones) would be willing to give more than a 1st & 3rd for a QB upgrade like that.

they'd give up a whole lot...

because they’re moving from so far back

i still think you are asking a bit much

i feel if he is around at 4…there is a good chance he drops to us naturally

and if not, i would grab either a pro bowl prospect or trade back ourselves

we're talking about Luck...

not Griffin

Either one is an upgrade for all the teams I just mentioned. Personally, I’d like to trade with Seattle for either player. Cleveland would get so much more for that spot and we need all the help we can get, The AFCN has 3, yep – 3 playoff teams.

Then again, I would love to see you guys take it to jerry’s house and punk his ugly face…

I guess it all comes down to how much do you want to win now? The AFCN is a special place I call HELL.

I think if Cleveland could manage to get...

Richardson with the first pick…Floyd with the second and Dwayne Allen in the second round, they would have one of the most high powered offenses in the league with McCoy at the helm

No RB is worth a 1st round pick anymore. Especially not in a WCO scheme.

I’m wanting Holmgren to spend like Dan the Man this FA season. A WR, CB, (from philly) & OG (from baltimore) and a LB (Houston – even with him being hurt)

i think we have an OG from balt laying around here…want him?

sold on 1, 2, 3, 2, 4 on Luck

the way i look at it…we already know we would give up a 2 and 4 for nothing (mcnabb) so i am getting andrew luck for 1, 2, and 3 ;)

BTW we were talking about RGIII. We already got a throw away OL from you, dont want anymore…

too much for rg3 but i like him

we have a tradition of excellece. you must have had one that slid through the cracks. surely it cant happen twice. this guy is from balt!

and holmgren is not passing up luck if he falls to five

it will easily cost more than that for the Skins

the value chart is nice, but it is rarely followed to the letter. Esp. with 1st round trades

Cleveland also has 2 1st rd picks to bargain with....

This trade would leave Indy with the 4th pick; could be that the ’skins miss out on both Luck & RGIII (going to Indy at 4) if this were to happen…

VWG,Jr - January 4, 2012 reply

Anything is possible, but Indy is taking steps to nab Luck #1, not trade back for RG3 at #4.

I would love for this to happen.

but I think the Browns take Trent and Blackmon goes to the Vikes or Bucs.

On a side note, who wants to kick Skip Bayless in the nuts?

I would but I don't have time to wait in a line that long

who wants to kick Skip Bayless in the nuts

PAinfUL - January 3, 2012 reply

There’s no RB in this draft worthy of a 1st round pick

You're devaluing Trent Richardson, he's a great back and will go in the first round

21_DarnarienMccants_21 - January 3, 2012 reply

didnt know

landry jones went to A&M….pretty amazing they have two high caliber passers in one season…

I fixed it, thanks. I had a brain fart and was thinking of putting Tannehill there but will wait until Jones going back is official

Do you think Denver will go QB in the first?

I know Brady Quinn is a free agent this year, but it still seems unlikely they pick one that high.

that would still leave them with only one 'high caliber passer'

What?

No TE with the 6th pick???

ThuGodfather - January 3, 2012 reply

I'm seeing a few mocks

that have the Skins taking a TE in the second.

I will hurt someone if we go TE in the second

What if Sleepy goes elsewhere?

Still think we can wait till later to get one of the freak of nature types

Cooley was a third rounder. Use one of the fourths, Cooley, and Paulsen and we’ll be okay next year.

Cooley may physically fall apart next year. I agree on waiting a little later though.

As long as he makes it 8 games we'll be fine

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

If he has the surgery

He won’t play at all. They should know before the draft if he’ll even be available.

TEs are a dime a dozen

that kid on the Huskies is going to be a bigger, faster Gronk and Gronk wont even be in his prime yet. Waves of these 6’6" 270 pound TEs on the way

Maybe not a dime a dozen, Ozzie Newsome doesn't seem to think good ones are that hard to find.

Yet the Skins have picked up 3 or 4 that have rotated on and off their practice squad in the 2011 season. They did the same thing with RBs in 2010.

he is only a freshmen

i was drooling over being able to draft him as well. if he keeps up the good work plus the fact of gronk doing well getting these types of Te in later rounds might be a thing of the past by the time he enters the draft

not going to happen

Too many other needs to fill before TE

I'd love that but no chance imho the Browns stick with Colt, he's pretty bad

and they cant assume that next year they’ll have their pick of qb’s

colt is not their future

but they could go either rg3 or richardson/blackmon and nab a qb in the 2nd or with their late first rounder

it all depends on how these qbs compare to them. plus flynn is out there like he is for us. and they have a pretty good guy running their show these days

It's funny to see people bashing McCoy but praising Flynn.

Agreed

flynn threw for 500 yards and 6 tds. that is impressive even if it is with green bay on the last week of the season

colt is not their future because:

in two seasons, he has not won one division game
he has noticeably struggled
and MOST importantly, the NFL has two class action lawsuits regarding concussions and both colt mccoy and his father kicked the hornets nest by claiming they reinserted him in a game when he had concussion like symptoms. he has not even seen the practice field since

and CLE is getting another QB prospect somehow this offseason…bet on that

it may or may not be RG3

it all depends on the perceived difference between RG3 and the next tier QBs like Weeden, Tannenhill, et al. And to a lesser extent, evaluations on Matt Flynn and Matt Moore if he becomes available

And we wont have those answers until draft day, except for maybe flynn

Stanford didn't seem to want to engage in a shoot out between Luck and their receivers versus

Weeden plus Blackmon. Stanford did not have a defender that could cover Blackmon and Oklahoma State was able to give Weeden enough pass protection.

yeah i watched the game.

but weeden is 28 and there is some discount he gets for that. so i dont know how that affects his grade with us or other teams

yeah

because Flynn had a great game but hasn’t had enough starts to really see the whole picture.

different situation though

Colt has struggled quite a bit, while in the limited sample Flynn has succeeded. The Browns have the extra picks, so they can grab Griffin since his upside is higher than McCoy’s and still have a full draft complement (plus an extra 4th).

Flynn could make sense for the Browns as well, but I think Cleveland has to upgrade their QB position.

Browns may end up

being the team we end up trading down with they end up really wanting Richardson and Griffin.

Redskin44 - January 3, 2012 reply

richardson the running back? i dont see us trading down for him but anything is possible

No

We trade the 6th pick to the Browns so they get Richardson . In return, we get the first rd pick Cleveland got from Atanta, plus Cleveland’s 2nd and 4th pick. In addition maybe we can wrangle a pick or two from them in 2013.

Redskin44 - January 3, 2012 reply

its possible

there are a number of teams that could target Blackmon, Richardson, Claiborne, Kirkpatrick and possibly Martin or Reiff. It will all depend on which player is still on the board. I could also see Denver being in on Richardson as Moreno has been a bust and they run the ball 70% of the time now.

That sounds much better. If RG3 is not there at 6, I trade back.

i wouldnt do that.

it would have to be browns 1st and a 3rd to move from 6th all the way down to flacons pick.

You would not do it from the skins

Perspective? Or the browns would not do it. From the skins perspective, getting a 1,2, and 4 is better than a 1 and a 3

Redskin44 - January 4, 2012 reply

i'm not saying anything about Flynn other than he shouldnt be overpaid for 1 game but will be.

but Mccoy is arguably the most physically insufficient starter in the league at the moment, there’s just no way he’s the answer

off subject silver lining

i think we are really building some solid depth. i think its safe to say polian and angelo got fired for their lack of ability to field a team when their starter(s) went down. now i know we didn’t have the win total but our backups (mostly rookies) went out there and competed. when they’re (hopefully) back to being back ups next year, we’re gonna have solid depth to build on.

jaygo - January 3, 2012 reply

dream scenario

it would be nice for griffin to fall to us however i think thats unlikely…but i wouldnt mind trading back into the teens and picking up a guy like A. jeffrey and getting additional picks to address qb and o lineman in the second to third rounds..

i actually wouldn’t mind this at all. could even get some potential picks for next year and draft a franchise guy if we didnt figure out our qb situation once again.

fraja926 - January 4, 2012 reply

I don't think Cleveland will pass on Griffin, unfortunately.

TheDeepBall - January 3, 2012 reply

I think this is very realistic

but like some others I think RGIII might go to the Browns. McCoy is clearly not getting it done.

Cleveland could also choose to address QB in free agency

Allowing them to load up at the skill positions with Richardson and Floyd/Jeffery with their two first rounders. Their run D is legit, and they could address secondary in the later rounds.

SCSkin21 - January 3, 2012 reply

"Their run D is legit"???

I hope you aren’t talking about the Browns… They are by far a better pass D than they are in Run D.

The only reason they have good pass defense stats is because teams generally have a nice lead and run a lot on them and then they dont throw the ball

Got that totally backwards, apologies.

But the point stands, I generally feel that it’s in their best interest to make moves on the offensive side of the ball (via the first round and free agency). Creating a scenario in which RGIII falls to us.

Miami is the wild card.

SCSkin21 - January 3, 2012 reply

yes but Moore hasn't been terrible

there's not much in the way of QBs in FA

Flynn who is a big unknown, Orton, Grossman, and Campbell are the few worth considering as a starter.

Couldn't Flynn be a real possibility to Cleveland because of the Holmgren-McCarthy connection?

McCarthy is a Holmgren disciple and if Cleveland is running a variation of the Green Bay scheme (not sure if they are or not) then I imaging Flynn would be VERY attractive to them.

That would allow Cleveland to draft Richardson or trade down and pick up more parts surround Flynn with.

I'm not familiar with their system

or a Holmgren-McCarthy connection, but the fact that FA happens before the draft this year, unlike last year, will help clear some of this up between now and then.

SCSkin21 - January 3, 2012 reply

If Griffin doesn’t fall to them/they aren’t able to move up, they need to take a long hard look at Riley Reiff, a projected top 10 guy, but an athletic tackle, the kind that Shanny endorses.

Brutus89 - January 3, 2012 via Android app reply

^ longest sentence ever

Brutus89 - January 3, 2012 via Android app reply

Just a high R-factor.

Any thoughts on this route...

If Browns go with RG3….

Skins pick up Justin Blackmon or any OT lineman prospect while picking up Matt Flynn in FA?

Thoughts?

Im not advocating for Flynn, just wondering if you think its a possible route they take.

it's possible but I suspect the asking price will be too high

Flynn is at a great organization and surrounded by talent (on the offense – I’m not talking about the defense) so it’s hard to say how good he really is (for me anyway as I’m not a professional scout nor have I ever played QB).

To me his asking price has to be less than trading up to draft Luck or RGIII.

It will really bowl down to what Shanahan looks for in a QB.

Yeah...

He had a great game this week to finish out their season, but you have to wonder what he can do with Moss and Gaffney over the Packer’s receiving core. Our O-line struggles don’t help him succeed either. Its tough when a guy has only had what 2 starts, but then 480 yrds for 6 TDs is pretty ridiculous.

yes but the Lions defense is awful

Detroits pass defense ranked 22nd and their run defense 23rd. Bottom 3rd.

before sunday's game though they ranked in the teens in both yards and TD's

they still rank top 10 in INT’s and net yards per attempt.

They have a good defense when Suh is playing. They can afford to play a little more loose with that offense. Both GB and NO have better defenses than they rank when everyone is healthy.

lets not forget that the lions were playing to keep the 5th seed

they knew the falcons had won or was winning big time. and they knew the 6th seed had a date with the saints at home….. ouch

Fynn was missing GB’s best receiver as well as the rookie stud Cobb.

But it’s true we have a great group even without them. Jordy elevated himself to a different level this year.

*Flynn

The thing is it's not if the Browns go with RG3

FA is before the draft, so you’ll have to make the decision on Flynn without the benefit of draft hindsight

hahahaha... whoops. You're right.

In that case... haha.

I imagine the Skins will be watching the other teams this off-season extremely closely. If Flynn did in fact catch their attention.

Chris Russell said Flynn caught their attention.

But that could be a (gasp) smokescreen, to make other teams think we want him.

The it’s a bait and switch.

Mwahahahahahahaha

and green bay could franchise him and trade him

They probably won't do that, too risky

definitely risky on a whim…not on a backroom gentlemens handshake with someone he trusts

i agree it is the least likely option but it is possible

We also might have to use the tag on JerMichael Finley.

hmmm would you?

how would you feel about that?

yeah that is my guess

I can’t see how the pack can afford the tag and risk losing Finley, Wells and othere players (even if they don’t tag them, the Pack can’t touch that $15 million until they trade Flynn, so Finley could get a better offer, as could anyone else.

i think griffin following to us at sixth is completly plausible

i see the following teams as those who may be in the market for a QB: seattle, miami, washington, cleveland, denver, colts (maybe jacksonville, but since the GM is still there i think they go with gabbert for at least another year)

these teams may sit pat with their QBs, draft a QB, or sign a free agent QB

i think luck is going to colts

free agent QBs include orton, campbell, and flynn, amongst others…and depending on which teams sign them, we may not see any trades up

furthermore, the teams picking ahead of us all need help at multiple positions, and there seems to be some good talent at the top of this draft, which means they may target other positions than QB

i think there may be a run on QBs in the second round though

falling to us

Its just too early to tell...

I can def say that I’m watching the draft for sure this year haha.

haha i know right

the plot will thicken, so to speak, as the offseason progresses

only problem is...

rg3 looks to be a great qb.. any team that is even thinking qb will take him. some might even trade up for him. i mean who wouldnt want a better passing qb verision of micheal vick?

All of the QB questions hinge on Matt Flynn.

If Cleveland signs him, we get RG3.

I wonder if the Holmgren/ GB connection will play a part?

i was wondering that earlier as well

sorta like hassellbeck going to the seahawks, although holgrem is more removed from his days with the packers than he was back then

i don't really see it

no one on the Packers staff has any real connection to Flynn and McCarthy and Holmgren are different coaching trees.

Now they could still go after Flynn, but I don’t see the GB factor playing a role.

But there is a street in Cleveland named Flynn Alley!

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

I read that Washington and Seattle

are two of the most likely to get Flynn.

you will hear washington named for just about every qb option out there

and seattle

Yes, though you’ll come back to Holmgren and make that trade for RGIII. You know you want him, and we actually aren’t going after a QB this year. Next year, well thats a different story. So, if you want your QB now, then make the trade with Cleveland.

The Chargers must really like Malcolm Floyd

if they are re-drafting him ;)

Mr. E - January 3, 2012 reply

haha my bad

Don't they have a bigger need in OL or LB over a WR anyways?

I was considering if VJax leave then Floyd could be a nice fit.

yes…they are loaded at WR

and they got a good one last year in case VJ leaves …his name is jackson too!

His name is Vincent Brown, his name is not also Jackson

And how are they loaded? If VJax leaves then they have: Vincent Brown, Malcolm Floyd (31), Crayton (32), Richard Goodman, and Bryan Walters. That could be the worst receiving corps in the league.

why do you feel they are the worse receiving corp in the league because the have the #6 passing attack in the league by yards and #6 by passing tds.

why do you feel if they lose VJ they will drop from #6 to #32? I dont see that happening and still feel they are weaker at linebacker than WR- with or without VJ.

B/c you're including the RBs, and Antonio Gates

If you take that away then their receiving corps w/o VJax is incredibly pedestrian, especially with Floyd on the wrong side of 30. VJax accounts for over 1,100 yards and 9 TDs, they can address LB in the second round and beyond for sure.

If you’re game planning against the Chargers what scares you about Floyd, Brown, Crayton, Goodman, Walters? I’d put 9 guys in the box and keep an eye on Gates.

if you do this and omit that etc. the premise of your argument is that you feel VJ is leaving SD because with him, they are legitimately solid ranked at #6

Have you heard or read anything that leads you to believe he will not resign? Because I have not heard a bit of controversy out of SD that the problems a year ago continue to be active.

Are you serious, he's been trying to get out of San Diego for 3 years now!

Because I have not heard a bit of controversy out of SD that the problems a year ago continue to be active.

Do you not remember when he nearly sat out the whole season a couple of years ago?

yes i am serious and i am talking about this season. i know what happened in the past.

i still dont think it is their biggest need. they are keeping smith and norv so the push continues. and i think they need to fill other positions more—-like find a replacement for gates. they have good young rbs and the shift may change, i still dont see them with the worse passing attack next year…not with rivers

All he wants is to get Paid long term like an elite WR.

Not that he hates SD.

The Chargers must like not winning.

They are keeping Norv Turner and AJ Smith next year.

exactly

but I love it because my 2nd favorite NFL is the Chiefs (yeah, I’m a glutton for punishment). Norv has done a great job taking a 14-2 team to mediocrity.

if rg3

doesnt fall to us and blackmon off the board as well i think we should trade back; stockpile additoinal picks like last year and hope to land a dalton type qb in the second or third round

It is too early to mock trades.

This is the most sensible way to mock the top 6, but it is too far away to hear any trade rumors. I would switch the Browns and Bucs pick, even though I believe that Blackmon is going to be a phenomenal player. He is the reason OK State won last night and really the reason why they are the #3 team in the country.

Browns have the ability to take a RB like Miller, Polk, Wilson, or Pierce with their other first or early in the 2nd.

That was my line of thinking.

Browns fans will be happy after draft day.

They can either get Blackmon and one of the backs you mentioned, or Richardson and Jeffery/Floyd.
Of course, if I were them I would take RGIII, but I’m not and I’m hoping they choose to take anyone else.

Also, if Denver replaces Tebow with Jones, their fans are going to starting thinking Elway might be a Jordan in the FO.

1-2 years down the road they would realize they given up a QB who can’t throw but wins games for a QB that can’t throw and can’t win games.

My rationale is that Elway can continue to develop Jones/Tannehill while appeasing the fans in Denver w/ Tebow starting

It's completely possible.

From the way Elway has spoken this year about Tebow, I would be surprided if he didn’t come away this year with a QB.

Tebow just isn't an NFL QB as he can't find open receivers

there were a lot of plays yesterday where the receiver was wide open but Tebow couldn’t figure it out. I just don’t see him starting for anyone in the long term unless he learns to work through the passing progressions to find the open receiver.

There is no way a player like him does not get another chance somewhere else.

I won’t judge him until after he plays with his new team, when he has a better team and support. I won’t bet against for or against him since there are just so many reasons why he can and can’t succeed, but I’ll reserve my opinion.

As a h-back

off subject but if blackmon is available along with rg3 who do u take

i would lean towards blackmon and get a qb at the top of the 2nd like cicny did

No way....if RG3 is there and you don't get a motherload of a trade offer, you take RG3

I don't know, I'd be more inclined to have Blackmon/Tannehill than RG3/Wright

How about Blackmon/OL/Weeden

People are starting to come around to my Weeden idea

Fine by me

I'm fine with that too, question is, does he last until the 3rd round?

If RG3 is there you hand in the card in about 1.2 seconds with his name on it.

+11

Rekka - January 3, 2012 reply

11 minutes would be too long

That's what she said.

She's lying to you

You mean 2x as long to choose Orakpo?

+1,000

I'll take it!!

jbh1190 - January 3, 2012 reply

Blackmon will create a mismatches with nearly all NFL pass defenders. Floyd and Jeffrey are also elite picks.

Any of these three WRs joined with first tier QBs will be tough and can elevate teams offenses. How much OL help do the Skins need to take advantage of these kind of players?

go after stanford’s kicker at least his attempts dont get blocked

Gano is definitely the problem with the field goal blocking unit

Yep, all his fault that the front line gets raped

BigOLinemen - January 3, 2012 reply

At least two of Gano's blocked kicks can be pinned on T. Williams absence.

we are not like these playoff teams that can afford to trade back

we need playmakers now the browns have been trading back for years and they still suck they passed on orakpo(thank) and julio jone to move back and for what

But they have Phil Taylor!

Well we don't know yet....they are stacked with draft picks for this year, lets see what they do with them

I really think Holmgren goes for Flynn, leaving us in the drivers seat for RG3.

Why?

Because I shook my Magic 8-Ball, asked if Holgren would do it, and it said yes.

What else do you want?

I was just asking why, man. It's a discussion board, many people here are here to hold a conversation...

and discuss why they think something, rather than blanket statements.

I was just curious why you have any inclination to “really think” that Holmgren signs Flynn. It was just an honest question.

Oh. I think he still probably has connections in Green Bay. I think he has a street named after him.

My thinking is he will remind him of Hasselbeck and he’ll take him, then try to get some serious receivers around him.

So because he has a street named after him in GB, he'll sign a FA QB from the Packers who reminds him of the guy he coached in Seattle?

Pretty damn sound logic

If only Shanny had a street named after him in Indianapolis, we'd get Luck no problem

there is a shanahan and shanahan in indianapolis

there is also a shanahan mart which is probably where you go to get the deal

better than a street

feeling lucky!!!

It's good enough for me.

that line of thinking didn't lead the Redskins to sign Cutler after he was cut by Shanny's former team

Holmgren doesn’t really have any GB connection anymore

But Steve, there is a porta-potty named after him in GB

Because Zorn was still here. Shanny wasn't hired at that point.

Cutler was cut a month and a half ago and the Skins could have claimed him

You mean Orton?

haha yeah my bad

Orton, he was on Shanny’s former team, but has zero actual ties to Shanny (i.e. Flynn and Holmgren comparison)

And then we're not in the drivers seat, the Browns would be even more likely to trade back unless Blackmon is there or they're sold on TRich

Yeah but CLE could trade back with us and still possibly get Blackmon or Richardson

I’m against trading too far up as the cost is too high but if we traded up to CLE’s spot then thats not that bad. However, I wouldn’t do it until they are on the board so that MIA or someone doesn’t try to swoop in and trade to #3 or #4

Hold on a second, why would we strike a deal with the team directly in front of us, when they are supposed to be the most worrisome suitor?

If they call us then that means they aren’t interested in RG3, I’d call their bluff, give them the finger, and gamble that they don’t make a deal elsewhere (b/c someone probably would’ve done it with the first 4 picks)

unless they trade up for luck

they just wasted there last 3 drafts

they did?

Alex Mack was whom the Browns drafted after they traded back and he’s a Pro Bowl center. Then they got Phil Taylor, Greg Little and Owen Mariecic plus a 1st and 4th this year for not taking Julio Jones (and gave up their 3rd to to get Taylor, but they could b/c they had the extra picks).

Yea, such a bad idea to trade back....geez what were they thinking? (sarcasm)

esp since most people thought the Browns would have taken Mark Sanchez with that pick...now that would have been ugly

Wait now im confused, that wasnt the same draft....that was last year, Sanchez was a couple years ago

his point was the Browns traded back twice

in 2009 and last year. In 2009 they had the 5th pick and traded it to the Jets. They eventually drafted Alex Mack after trading back again. Now the Browns took less than they should of in the deal (b/c they didn’t want to pay top 5 money), and screwed the rest of the compensation up. But they did land Mack, when they ‘passed on Sanchez’.

Last year was of course the Julio Jones deal. Which Greg Little put up pretty good numbers despite not having near the offensive talent around him that Jones does.

im not saying they dont have good players

my point was 1 great player is better than 2 good players i would rather go after the best tallent available then trade back and get the 2nd and 3d best available i will take julio over greg little anyday

But for what they paid for Julio he didn't help them that much

Trust me Matt Ryan was my starting QB on one of my fantasy teams

but it isn't two good players, it is potentially 5

and while Jones numbers are better than Little’s, he had Matt Ryan throwing to him, in one of the best offenses in the league (White and Gonzalez drawing coverage, Turner moving the chains). Compare that to Little. What would have happened if Little was on the Falcons and Jones on the Browns?

julio jones is a better wr prospect than any wide receiver in this draft.

and second only to AJ Green last year.

false

Parks Smith - January 4, 2012 reply

says who, you?

why?

Justin Blackmon called

He is way better then Jones. Blackmon would have been a top 5 to 10 pick last year. Dude is an absolute fucking beast.

64ShagginWagon - January 4, 2012 reply

Yes he is. He is not as explosive as Julio- who is a beast in the NFL.

I love Blackmon. But he is ranked just under JJ as a prospect. I would love either for us.

JJ is 6’3 with a 38" vertical and runs sub 4.4

Blackmon is closer to AJ Green…a little slower without that extra gear and a little lower vertical

All three are big, strong, excellent WR prospects

I'd like to go on record to say that Flynn is Fitzpatrick 2.0.

They even look the same.

Continue your business as usual…

You may be right.

I personally think he’s a bit better. Fitzpatrick is an average QB, Flynn is an above average one.

I still support the idea of considering Flynn in FA, Tannehill in late 1st (trade back) or 2nd and keeping the picks to retool.

Stephen Beagrie - January 4, 2012 reply

norv turner survives

maybe the washington organiztion was wrong about him and he is an excellant head coach

AJ Smith the Lord of No Rings

hey

there not gay! there hobbits!

i assume there is no need for that?

no we weren't wrong, the Chargers are wrong

Turner was supposed to get the Chargers to the SB because Marty Schottenheimer couldn’t win in the playoffs. So Marty builds an awesome team and takes them to 14-2 which is where Norv takes over and steadily lowers their wins every season except for 1 fluke season.

Turner is the most over rated HC prospect in the NFL.

we had both of them and neither left me smiling

this is best case scenario...

and if it happens, AWESOME!!!! Getting one of the two guys without giving up anything and not having to settle for the lower guys, its all good…

would bwv

trueredskinm - January 3, 2012 via mobile reply

Blowup West Virginia?

dumb smartphone

Would be happy just if he does good at the combine. Someone would move up to get him.

trueredskinm - January 3, 2012 via mobile reply

nice job parks

my real question is richardson a top 5 pick in this draft. the bucs have a LOT of needs…and a great talent eye GM. i feel there is a good chance he will find someone he likes at RB that is not the #5 pick.

I feel pretty strongly luck, rg3, kalil and blackmon will go top 5…but if anyone of them drop it is a no brainer for us

question parks…what do you advocate if those four are off the board at #6 for us

Trade back or get Reiff or Martin

thanks

will reiff or martin still have a game left? i dont know who they are

Martin played for Stanford last night and Reiff already played for Iowa in the Insight Bowl

ok thanks! from the little i saw, at least i feel confident weeden is solid and should be there with our #6 pick in the 2nd round. so i dont feel that we HAVE to trade up for RG3. and if my top 4 is not there, i am happy to grab an all pro prospect at his position so long as it is not OLB. but i have not identified who that could be so i would prob trade back …all subject to change

If the Skins can get a taker for rd1 pick #6 and also get a later rd1 pick and another rd 2, then they can

get an OT for the rd 1 pick (or a QB like Tannehill) as well as a C/G for the additional rd 2 pick (or a QB). There is flexibility in the sequence of the picks. A WR could also be used for a 2nd rd pick.

YES and that is option 2 for me if luck or rg3 is not available.

i think tannehill might fit nice. a ton of upside and they can develop him for our system from day 1. we can drop back 5-15 draft spots and still get him comfortably

i would go C/G over WR. the three top passing teams- NO, NE, and GB- dont have a single first round receiver in the mix. and jennings went #52. i think shanahan can do something similar. its just that it is so damn hard to get a good lineman if you dont draft him.

Hope richardson has the BEST combine ever for a RB.

If the Browns are to… to take him, pretty sure the Bengals would move up to get him. Unless, they want to pay more money on Benson & P.H.

I think

that Matt Flynn is a more talented Kevin Kolb. A couple games, good performances on teams loaded with offensive talent. Then they hit the market, and get 65 million dollars. While Flynn will be more likely to succeed without weapons (Green Bay sat 4 offensive statrters outside of Rodgers). If we signed him, we’d have to go Blackmon/OL, and with the picks the Browns have, they are probably best-suited to sign him. Don’t count on the Jets or Seahawks though.

what does that mean? kolb is the second best qb on his team…and that team is arizona!

joking…you are right…there is a big risk with flynn. i think he played some in 2009-2010 plus the preseason so there is some footage. but the offensive is explosive

I am looking for the Redskins to market the 6th spot as the best place to get either RG3, Trent, or Blackmon

With the haul of picks we would get, we could still get a decent signal caller in the second and then bring in blue-chippers with the rest of the picks this year and next.

Ken Meringolo - January 3, 2012 reply

Absolutely love that scenario

But what will the fans think? I for one would hate to grab a second round QB.

That to me is the Redskins saying, “Hey guys, have a little more Rex Grossman, just until we’re eliminated from the playoff race, then we’ll see this other kid.”

Just grab a good QB early and get it over with.

Yea! Like the Bengals!

Would Love to emulate the 1st two rounds of the Bengals 2011 draft. Blackmon/Tannehill. Make it so!

davesomethin - January 3, 2012 via mobile reply

could happen but that means tannehill passes cle ind and min twice right? hmmm….?

Yeah. Not likely to happen.

davesomethin - January 3, 2012 via mobile reply

What if we grab a good 2nd round QB who's ready to start?

With Shanahan, I don't think that will happen.

He’ll freaking sit him until it’s too late in the season.

So what is the evidence that he wouldn't do that with a 1st rounder?

The fact that both of his first rounders here were day one starters.

But none of his QBs have been. LT and OLB doesn't exactly translate to a leadership position like QB

You asked for evidence.

I gave it to you.

and I responded

Well, Andrew Luck is REALLY the only QB in this draft who is 100% ready to start day 1, so you're saying its Luck or no one?

That's not what I said.

That to me is the Redskins saying, "Hey guys, have a little more Rex Grossman, just until we’re eliminated from the playoff race, then we’ll see this other kid."

Just grab a good QB early and get it over with.

So, where in my quote does it say "Luck or no one?"

I’m still looking for it.

I think he is saying that he thinks Luck is the only day 1 starter.

Meaning RGIII isn’t a day one starter and shouldn’t be our pick according to your opinion. The thing is, Griffin is a day one starter, so according to (I think)your opinion(and mine), we should take him.

there's no way Shanny passes on RG3

but there’s also no way he’s available 6th imo

Your right……

Yes, exactly.

And somehow you didn’t twist my words around and say that I wanted us to sign Brett Favre.

Maybe you should have just said what you meant?

I thought by the context clues it was pretty obvious.

All of you are educated, I expected you to get it.

Day 1 starter at what position?

Parks, when he is starting for us week 1 and is kicking butt, I will be here to say "I told you so."

For he will be a great QB, and you will be repaid for your negativity.

It's not as if we're hoping that the Redskins don't get a sick QB.

We’re trying to convey the perspective that most QBs drafted don’t work out, they don’t end up being good.

So assuming that RGIII or Luck are elite QBs and trading up for them as such is dangerous

So you're scared of a bust?

You think it would be safer to take a tackle or something, or trade back and pay lesser money for lesser talent hoping it works out?

I'm scared of trading away a ton of draft picks for a bust, yes

what's the worst that could happen

we dont get to use some later round picks on guys who may or may not pan out?

The worst that could happen is that we give up a lot of top round talent for 1 bust QB

but there's just as much chance that other 1st rounder is a bust

see: Landry, Laron

What did we give up to get LaRon? Nothing

If RGIII or Luck falls to us, I’m all for taking him.

But overspending for these players is not a smart decision

yeah but having traded away the pick that was used on Laron

wouldnt have hurt the organization in the least.

at any rate, i guess it’s the exact cost to move up that’s the real debate

Correct.

Stephen Beagrie - January 4, 2012 reply

I hope you are. What if he starts for us in Week 1 and goes 17 for 36, 143 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT?

Still better then Rex

Only one INT. I’ll take it

haha

Then you can troll me.

Fair is fair.

Plus, according to other people, Weeden would be ready to start.

So you want to reach two rounds to make Weeden a Top 6 pick?

That was in response to Stephan's statement about Luck being the only ready to go QB.

My comment was in response to you comment about Weeden, I'm expecting a response after this

My response to your response on my comment is right below.

You guys are like a mini Steveo and Tiller

Steve is just my replacement in the Tiller rivalry.

Before Steve there was monumental Parks v. Tiller showdowns. I’ve since retired after demolishing Tiller in all things 2011 NFL Draft and use iH8 as a low level sparring partner

You mean trolling my comments and trying to get me to take the bait?

Yea I'm definitely a troll. You're obviously a very active poster, but you never back up your points.

All I do is ask questions to why you think a particular thing, but you decide to cry instead of backing up you point

Really?

You definitely have singled me out for some reason.

And it borderlines trolling.

You're right man I eat, sleep, and drink iH8

You're obviously active, as well as myself. So it's strange to you when I ask questions?

From the bottom of my heart, I'm sorry for trolling you.

You used to be fun, someone you could poke at like a lot of others around here. Call me when your monistat shipment comes in, I’d love to be friends again

I just want a tampon, do you have an extra?

I use pads

Gross!!!

I’ve dumped chicks for using pads.

What's the difference between a lady dlls fan and a hockey player?

The hockey player will change his pads after three periods.

Old joke.

Stephen Beagrie - January 4, 2012 reply

What is this ‘troll’ you speak of? You guys speak in riddles!

davesomethin - January 3, 2012 via mobile reply

How does me saying people said Weeden is ready to start translate into me wanting to take him at 6?

I was assuming based on Stephan's presumed correct assumption above

Because you said "grab a good QB early" and start him so we dont have to start Rex

My point was that Adnrew Luck is really the only guy ready to stop in and start. So if you want a QB who’s gonna immediately start over Rex, its Luck or no one

That's your opinion.

I think Griffin would step in and be just fine.

Okay, so its Luck or Griffin or no one?

Yes.

So what if they are both off the board at #6? Start John Beck?

Then I'll cry and get fat.

You really would love Twilight then.

There it is, thats what i wanted to see: That closed-minded QB mentality

Imagine if our FO goes in with that mentality

Then we'll snatch Luck or RG3.

The Redskins are saved and everyone lives happily ever after.

except we have huge holes everywhere else

Because we had to trade up.

Oh No!!!!

What would we do then?

How would we plug those huge holes?

Let me guess what your idea is

Sign a bunch of FA to huge contracts that are heading on the downside of their career. It’s worked so well for us in the past.

So trade picks and fill all of the holes in FA. What a novel idea.

because, we all know that all the FA are...

heading on the downside of their career

I thought last years FA proved you can find middle road guys, who perform adequately, without breaking the bank.

We filled a couple of spots with up and coming players while AQUIRING more draft picks to develop our own talent and depth

Not trading most of our picks and filling ALL of our needs in FA

and because of those FA...

we will not be required to fill our entire roster with over the hill, money grabbing FA this year.

You should go read Rick Sniders article in the daily slop

It’ll give you an idea of how many holes we have.

Rick Snider???

Rich Snider does not affect my view of this team in any way. If there is one thing I have learnd from being on this blog, everyone has an opinion and everyone’s opinion is different. My post will always reflect my view of this team, not someone elses.

Didn't say it was gospel

just a good breakdown of how many holes we have. if someone here took the same time to write a similar story about how many holes we have I would tell you to go read that fanpost. Or wait till one of our glorious leaders decides to write the holes article.

Rick Snider is no different than any of us, except his opinion is seen by more people.

Now if Shanahan or Bruce Allen had a blog, that might be different.

See my reply above

Point being we can’t go back to how it was done for most of the past decade +.

But the guys calling the shots are different and have shown a good draft record.

Bad excuse.

So you don't want to trade picks?

How else are you getting Luck or RGIII? Magic beans?

Good draft record?

All of the 2011 draft picks were on the active roster.

Can you show me a bust yet?

That's a record?

That’s one year out of 21 years combined of ShanAllen.

It’s unfair to label someone as a “bust” after one year, you still have to give them time. Judging a draft as positive after 1 year doesn’t make a “good track record” either.

I can point to Shanny and Allen busts all over the place though, on players you can actually evaluate, unlike our rookies.

And FYI, all our draft picks were not on the active roster. Jenkins never was, and Robinson was inactive his one week on the 53 man.

Can you point to one on this team?

Trent Williams is looking like one.

Dennis Morris
Selvish Capers

But it’s not even fair to evaluate someone 2 years out.

Those same evaluators have had tremendous bust in free agency/trading… McNabb, LJ, etc

Trent Williams is NOT a bust.

Capers and Moris, ok, but they were late rounders.

Its not fair to say he is yet,

but he’s teetering on it.

Pac Man was still talented, but he was still a bust in Tennessee.

There are discussions of our Top 5 tackle moving to the right side b/c he can’t handle the left, and he has a drug problem to boot. Wow what a productive pick that has been!

He handles D.Ware, no problem.

He’s our best run blocker.

The pot thing, yeah.

But as a talent, he is not a bust.

And the talk of moving sides is coming from here, not the coaches, so that is not relevant.

i wouldn't call the 9 pressures in the first game 'no problem'

TW is our best blocker, but that doesn’t make him great. He’s not a top 20 LT in this league right now, and would start at RT for most teams (and on some wouldn’t even do that).

It’s too early to tell, but his flashes of brilliance need to be more consistent

The drug suspensions make him a RT at best. You can not hold your team hostage to the whims of your smoking habits. He failed 11 drug tests- ELEVEN…come on, man.

We didn't have any high picks that year

1st- TW: TBD, more bust than not

then we didn’t have a pick until the 4th round

unless he has failed 11 drug tests and is suspended for a year with a 12th failure and forever on lucky 13

look i think this past year was pretty good

but the fact that everyone made it shows just how much talent we lacked this year. It’s not as though Thompson, White, Hurt, and Robinson did anything to warrant their spot (don’t get me wrong I like the upside of some of them) or playing time. They were default options.

That is like saying Rex Grossman ‘won the QB job’.

Griffin could start Day1, no problem.

i would hardly say 'no problem' given the horrible track record of starting rookie QB's

Over the last few years Rookie QBs have performed progressively better.

I would say “no problem,” especially considering his athleticism and accuracy will be huge boosts when adjusting to a new team and system.

pretty sure the Jets, Rams, Broncos, and Jags disagree with you

look at guys like Ponder and Locker (albeit limited work) some nice flashes but over the long haul haven’t looked great.

why do they have to look great?

Because the goal of football is winning

and we just went 5-11 with the system master vet at the helm.

I don't Rex to be our starter either

no but they need to show signs of development

and improvement. For us to start a rookie QB he should be 100% ready, not ‘oh he has upside’.

We’ve watched the Sanchize be awful on one of the best teams in the NFL for 3 years now. Bradford regressed this passed year and should be in serious question going forward. Tebow just isn’t ready to be an NFL QB.

While I think it is well too soon to say anything about Ponder or Locker, I do think they were overwhelmed and probably needed more seasoning.

there are maybe 15 qb's that are actually 100% ready every week.

Would RG3 be a better option than Rex or Beck on Day1? Most definitely, yes. So if those are the 3 on the roster, start him. If you have somebody better, play him….but surely dont avoid drafting Griffin because you’re afraid to start him immediately

i'm not saying that at all

but my point is you shouldn’t play Griffin just b/c you drafted him high. He should def. earn that job, and it shouldn’t be due to default b/c he’s going against Rex and Beck.

Cam didnt even call plays in college, just yelled out number seen on sideline.

if you cant get a successful college qb ready to start, that’s shows a lack of coaching acumen. Time have changed imho

and maybe he's the exception to the rule, doesn't mean every can or should be the exception

Dalton, Ryan, Flacco, Newton and Locker(yes Locker) are too many to equal an exception.

It really depends on the prospect, and RGIII and Luck are far better prospects than Gabbart, Sanchez, Russell, Quinn, etc.
I see both of them as day 1 starters who can be effective rookie QBs.

WAIT WHAT??

Jake Locker who completed just 51% of his passes which is the greatest concern of him coming out. Yes his ypa and TD’s are nice, but the sample size is far too small, and his lack of any pocket presence is flat out scary.

And I didn’t realize we were including 2nd rounders b/c you could add quite a few 1st year flameouts in that group as well.

You need a talented team if you want to start a rookie (Peyton had a great offense, Big Ben as well. Look at the offensive talent surrounding Flacco and Ryan), otherwise it doesn’t seem to workout too well.

which is exactly my point earlier

shanallen could have done ALOT better job filling this offense with support so when our young franchise qb arrives, he has a good chance to start and succeed. this is where i feel they have really dropped the ball badly. and even with mcnabb…you were only buying a couple of years best case scenario

I'm looking at the prospect, not the draft pick.

I should have put “no problem” into a better context. I see no problem letting a prospect such as Luck or Griffin start day one, as opposed to someone like Gabbart, Ponder or Sanchez.

And when Locker came into their games, he played well and almost pulled out two come from behind wins(after going down without him in the game).
I will say that I’m a big Locker fan so I may be a little biased.

look take Luck out of the equation b/c no disagreement here

but Griffin is a bit of a concern. Look he’s had a fantastic year, but his previous years weren’t nearly as electric, which makes me think that he might need some developmental time (nothing wrong with that…it obviously worked for Aaron Rodgers).

Yes i know Locker had some really nice drives, but maybe they would be wins if he wasn’t taking sacks and throwing incompletes. I understand he electrified the game, but Tennessee isn’t a 9-7 team (or anything close to it) with Locker at the helm.

b/c you said:

But what will the fans think? I for one would hate to grab a second round QB.
That to me is the Redskins saying, "Hey guys, have a little more Rex Grossman, just until we’re eliminated from the playoff race, then we’ll see this other kid."

And Stephan asked about a 2nd rounder (i.e. Weeden)

Enough with this 2nd round QB business

Yes, there is talent at the QB posiiton outside of the 1st round but the track record of GMs and scouts being able to correctly identify it is terrible- even worse than their track record on 1st rd QBs.

Sometimes I think people just want to say pick up a 2nd round QB because they want to appear shrewd and like a deal maker.

I'm just saying that you have to be prepared for when Luck and RG3 are gone

We may get them, but we may not. You have to have other options

So hypothetically... say we draft Kellen Moore in the 1st round

Does that instantly make him better than if we would have waited until the 7th round to take him?

Yes, there is talent at the QB posiiton outside of the 1st round but the track record of GMs and scouts being able to correctly identify it is terrible- even worse than their track record on 1st rd QBs.

Nope but I'm not sensing a strong basis for taking a 2nd rd QB other than well I dunno know

Why not the 3rd? Why not the 4th? etc…

yes 1st rounders are more likely

but if they aren’t available, then they aren’t available

I agree with that just thought that someone was saying to do this even with RG3 or someother top prospect still on the board for us

and it also means that they have a flaw that may or may not be corrected

so you'd take a first round qb for the sake of taking a first round qb?

you pick the player…not the position!!!

If

There is a market for RG3 at the sixth selection, he would’ve been traded up for before then, and I’d rather have Blackmon than an extra selection later, and miss out on an elite talent. The Redskins always finis well enough to knock themselves out of draft contention for an elite player, and they need to take one here if they can.

Not necessarily

if all of the other teams ahead of us fall in love with certain players or feel that a player fills their biggest need then they wouldn’t want to trade. Thus leaving us in a great spot for a possible trade.

Where Luck wants to play

A thought that just ran through my head is: I wonder where Andrew Luck wants to play.

I doubt Luck would pull an Eli Manning, but say he thinks: “There’s no way I want to go to Indianapolis, where I will be constantly and endlessly compared to Peyton Manning,” and decides to force Indy to trade the pick.

Obviously Luck has given no window into his preference for where he plays, I just thought it would be an interesting scenario.

Andrew Luck

Is from West Virginia I think, maybe his fandom declares where he wants to play. But he is too good of a kid to do that. Besides, his dad isn’t named Archie.

He's from Houston, his dad is the AD at West Virginia, BUT.... he was born in Washington DC!

finally, some real scientific logic...

I told you, it’s in the cards.

I think we just got Andrew Luck, then

Take RG3 damnit

BigOLinemen - January 3, 2012 reply

Wondering everyones thoughts are on Russel Wilson in the later rounds if we dont take a qb early

I know he is small kinda on the drew breese side, but he has the skill set to be effective in this offense. He is mobile but not run first and he can pass out of the pocket with pretty good accuracy. He has shown he can be even more effective with a consistent ground game i.e. monty ball. That would allow us to adress O-line and WR in the early rounds if the QB we want is off the board and if landry jones,tannehill,weeden etc are not good fits.

Why would we need a 2nd baseman?

I was impressed with him...

but realistically, he is like backup plan E, if all the other options are exhausted.

He's much better QB the he is a 2nd basemen, then if he doesnt workout the Nats could use him

I just think he is a better fit with the system than some of the other QBs being mentioned outside of RG3

He's a much better baseball prospect than football actually. Even though he had a rough year in Asheville last year

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/34788/shanahan-mailbag-offense-a-family-affair

interesting insight into the whole "system" discussion

kyle said it in his last interview too…they don’t look for guys that fit a system, but for guys that can win in the NFL

well we can throw that statement right out the window

when they bring in a guy like beck :P

haha

Still see his mobility and pocket presensce as a asset,seem like shanny's kind of QB, Character guy as well

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2012/1/2/2676025/what-do-we-do-with-the-fourth-overall-pick

Check out the posts about the 4th pick on Dawgs By Nature (Browns SBNATION Blog)

Seems they want to fleece us more the draft RGIII for themselves.

Copious 1 - January 3, 2012 reply

Fine by me.

good post Copious, thanks buddy

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

No problem.

Copious 1 - January 3, 2012 reply

Wait just a minute

there are to be no complements on this board. Only mockery, insults, and name calling.

sorry doo doo head

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

It's okay

you warthog faced buffoon.

they're just fans same as us, but no one in that thread is advocating they stick with Colt

and many of them dont believe RG3 will be available unless they trade up, viewing us as their main competition. it’s gonna be interesting…

As Steve would say, damn lies... One of the first comments I read:

We might as well as keep Colt, which I would like to do anyway.

Honor. Courage. Commitment.

by Brownsbacker488 on Jan 2, 2012 10:42 PM EST

They had a guy that won in the NFL then claimed he didnt fit the system

Not a fan of Mcnabb’s play in d.c. but that was there exuse as to his ineffectiveness here.

they brought him in here because he won in the NFL

and got rid of him because he wouldn’t do the little things (i.e. work on his footwork or other fundamentals) and it also seemed like he didn’t put in the hours shanahan expected out of a QB (notably all similar things that were said when mcnabb got benched in minn)….but i never recall shanahan saying mcnabb didn’t fit the system, i think that was more of the media’s take…in fact shanahan’s presser after the mcnabb trade indicated that he thought mcnabb could be a good QB if he did the little things, which apparently he didn’t while he was here

TheSportsManager - January 3, 2012 reply

Please unfreeze me in

15 weeks.

STL is going to give RG3 are really good look

don’t be surprised if they draft him. RG3 is going to light the combine up, wait and see. If that’s the case please trade up for Matt Kalil.

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

St. Louis appears to be keeping McDaniels

this would indicate they want offensive continuity for Bradford. I don’t think they are in the market for a new QB.

^spoken like a die hard Redskins fan

I read that Shanahan really liked Bradford

It would appear possible that STL would try to trade Bradford, and take Luck or RG3 (whichever one was available) with their #2 pick. I don’t know what it would take to get Sam, but it would seem to me that the price would not be extremely high – he has played, so the bloom is off the rose some
. If Parks’ mock draft is right, that RG3 is available at 6, that would be great, but we probably would not know whether Cleveland was going to take him. I don’t know how the draft works, whether Cleveland would tell Shanahan their plans. But it might be a real gamble, and Shanahan could decide to trade up to lock up RG3.

Donnio1234 - January 4, 2012 reply

I feel that is a stretch conclusion

I believe they are maintaining maximum flexibility to attract a GM and Coach. McDaniels is also being bandied about for a head coaching job again.

this is what i've been saying

Bradford was absolutely horrible this year, only so much can be pinned on a bad oline….there’s no way they are assuming he just needs a better LT

C'mon

It wasn’t just the OL. He didn’t have ANY weapons.

DCO'sfan - January 3, 2012 reply

He was worse than Rex

and you can argue Steven Jackson is a better weapon than Rex had all year even if Rams coaching was ass

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

NO

Bradford only had 13 TO’s in 10 games. Rex would have had at least 20.

that's true....but his qb rating was worse at any rate

and his yards per attempt (imo very telling stat) was only better than Colt and Gabbert….that’s really really bad

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

His contract likely locks him in

as did the Portis contract in Washington.

i hope so!

yeah his number 1 and number 2 wrs went out by week 2 i think

and his number 1 and 2 wrs aint that good to start with lol

LOL @ all the love for Bradford

No lol's allowed.

best mock of the year!!!!

just seen 1 that had us taking tannihill at the 6th spot:(

The NFL is a copy cat league and with the success that rookie QB's are having these days

it makes sense for the Rams to draft RG3 and dump Bradford’s huuuuuge contract.

lot of wishful thinking around these parts

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

They can't dump his "huuuuuge" contract

Bradfords salary for the next two years is guaranteed. $21 million total. Bradford isn’t going anywhere.

somebody (maybe us?) might consider trading for him

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

Who would take on that contract?

for a guy who had injury concerns coming into the league, and has had performance and injury issues. Plus, you would be dooming him to another new offensive system.

For comparison, Cam Newton got four years and $22 million.

Vinny

but he’s gone so sucks for them!

Newton contract was also the first contract under the new collective bargaining agreement

so save the comparisons

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

The comparison is valid in that

Bradford has a very expensive contract compared to QB’s in the draft.

Who would take on that contract?
for a guy who had injury concerns coming into the league, and has had performance and injury issues. Plus, you would be dooming him to another new offensive system.

that didn’t take long for you to flip flop

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

What flip flop?

I said they can’t get out of his contract. Which they can’t. I never said he had played great.

That's complete bullsh**.

DirkQc - January 3, 2012 reply

Why do you feel that way?

Sam Bradford is guaranteed $50mm. Cam Newton is guaranteed $22mm. RG3 will be guaranteed a similar amount at #2 as Cam was last year. $28mm is a HUGE difference. And you get a lot of good draft picks if you trade him? If you feel RG3 are a similar prospects, it is a no brainer.

Although in fairness to my own comment, SB has been paid for two seasons. So there probably is not a big financial difference going forward. BUT it is a lot of draft picks to give up if you believe they are similar prospects.

In essence, STL is trading up (opportunity cost) to draft SB over RG3. That is the way you have to look at it.

The Skins would prob pay a fair amount for SB…maybe not a full load though

New England taking Minnifield?

that would be a nasty CB combination with Ras-I…UVA combo!

ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown - January 3, 2012 reply

Anyone think that if RG3 and Blackmon are both off the board

but Trent Richardson is still there, Shanny will pull the trigger?

adamvolo - January 3, 2012 reply

No

Copious 1 - January 3, 2012 reply

You realize we have two (maybe three?) more than capable RB's on this roster?

Why would we waste a pick on yet another RB? Trade back or something if that’s the case.

DCO'sfan - January 3, 2012 reply

The only RB Shanny has ever taken high was Portis

and that didn’t end well. Don’t think he repeat that.

i thought he took Moreno...

could easily be wrong

That was McDaniels first pick.

Thankfully, he didn’t take Orakpo.

nice...

i wasn’t sure…

it got the broncos champ baily

. im just waiting for him to deal royster to get us a good player :D

if he does

then shanahan better stay in the booth up stairs or else a fan might be pulling a trigger too

Crick to GB = WIN.

Browns – DREAM ON… You really think RGIII or Luck could drop past the 4th spot? I want some of that Drank you drinking on – must be some good Sh*t. Cleveland won’t draft RGIII, you’re right on that, but we will trade that pick to any number of teams that would be suitors. Yours for one, miami, KC, and even seattle. Its nice to dream, I know all about it…

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to trade that pick to your team for picks & players. Then I want to see the Boys, and lil giants get the crap stomped out of them (BTW – I’m a HUGE Cowboy hater, so I could get along with skins fans).

If both the QBs & J.B are gone...

Who should the skins draft?

Trade

You’ve got Luck, Kahlil, Claibourne, RGIII, Blackmon, and Richardson. That’s six top players on offense. You add Couples and you can get some one that will trade up for Couples or Richardson.

Couples would need to gain weight to be a 3-4 DE.

Even then, he wouldn’t be playing to his strengths. I think that would be a Glenn Dorsey type of pick, and Kansas City has really hurt his progression so he hasn’t given them #5 pick production.
I don’t know why he isn’t being talked about more when deciding who Cleveland should draft. They have a terrible team with very few exceptions(Hayden, Taylor, etc.), and they should look to restart building a great D in the same way Houston did when they took Williams over Bush. Unless they choose Griffin or believe Richardson is the next Peterson, then they should take Couples.

See I think Richardson should be their pick

They played their best last year when Hillis was running the ball. Took pressure off McCoy. After all the bullshit with Hillis this year they have a massive hole in their backfield. But who really knows what will happen.

64ShagginWagon - January 4, 2012 reply

tradeback

grab some extra picks…get tannehill and develop him …could also go G or WR in this draft and get a potential solid starter

http://www.newerascouting.com/nfl-draft/overall-rankings/

No Lamar Miller? I see the hate for da U remains strong.

New Era has him as the No. 9 overall prospect, but whatevs.

David St. Martin - January 3, 2012 reply

I wish we really knew what the top 5 teams in draft was doing...

Asmaki - January 4, 2012 reply

This is GREAT insight on Shanahan’s thoughts on some things.

He believes he has two more seasons to produce. We will get a QB this offseason, and he will not be a later round developmental guy. It will be someone whom he believes will start this season.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/34788/shanahan-mailbag-offense-a-family-affair