Hogs Haven

thanks

i’ve seen him play a couple times, and like what i saw out of him

atark001 - January 6, 2012 reply

So you're saying there's a chance.

maybe he has reconsidered since Barkley and Jones have decided to return?

your point about his age is valid as well. If he does leave this year, he wont have as much competition since most of it hs decided to go back to school

SkinsaneAsylum - January 6, 2012 reply

Yea the age thing really stood out to me. But he's an Arkansas kid, so it would be a tough decision.

the more i think about his age, the more i wonder

think about it…hes 22 going on 23 now and would be the 3rd option behind Luck and RG3…most likely a 1st round/early 2nd round pick if he comes out now.

next year he will be going on 24 when the NFL season rolls around and he will be competing with Barkley, Landry Jones, maybe even Logan Thomas from VT and others who emerge…yes he is more seasoned, but his increased age automatically detracts from his draft status and he may fall in QB draft order…

interesting to ponder

SkinsaneAsylum - January 6, 2012 reply

What? Another QB?

Tell me more! I have my lotion and tissues ready.

That's disgusting....use your sock!

Or if your a man of the Rex Cannon variety you can try his go to....

sandpaper and videos of his deep throws on loop

SkinsaneAsylum - January 6, 2012 reply

Hey Parks,

You ready to admit that your stance on the Browns being a QB needy team was wrong?

Why?

Holmgren had a 70 minute press conference yesterday where he “stay the course” about 20 times and was saying that he think Seneca Wallace may be a better fit for the WCO. He also said he still think McCoy can get the job done. They also said they are going explore options.

Do you have some insider knowledge?

If he was such a staunch advocate of the kid he would have endorsed him.

To say “we have 3 quarterbacks on the roster I believe in” and that “we don’t know what the future, [draft & free agency], will bring.” That does not sound like a team that is enamored enough with their QB to not draft one or sign Matt Flynn.

No one bought Shanny when he said he thought Beck and Grossman could play, I still think the Browns are looking for their QB. Whether that’s RG3, I’m not so sure he’s a Holmgren guy. Than again, you could probably say that about RG3 and Shanahan.

Did you watch it, catch the context? You can twist it around to mean a million different things, it doesn't point to one or the other.

I could easily say he could be saying to challenge his young quarterback to be better.

Why would he come out now and say that they have no interest in quarterbacks and they are sticking with Colt? The Browns would lose ALL leverage in trade situation at that point. Cleveland is the drafts biggest wild card at this point and that comes with benefits, why would they show their hand?

They don't have to show their "hand"

But having a “hand” in the first place means they can go one way or the other. If he’s “THE GUY” then they can’t go one way or the other, you have said that he IS the guy. What I have been saying to you is that after seeing McCoy play in college and the last two years he definitely does not look like the guy and regardless of what Holgrem says, every one else around the league has seen the product on the field. They are just as much in it as Miami and the Redskins because all of heir QB’s have not played at or near a franchise level this year. Bradford, Ponder = Jury still out and they are not drafting a QB

McCoy = the jury has just returned to the Jury box and the fact that it can go either way means he very well may get the hook. The uncertainty to me confirms that they will be looking at possible replacements or as Holgrem said “competition” for McCoy.

So you're trying to call me out for being wrong, but yet at admit that it can go either way... awesome

McCoy = the jury has just returned to the Jury box and the fact that it can go either way means he very well may get the hook.

You think they’ll go QB at 4, I don’t. We won’t know until April, there is no need to be pointing at me and telling me I’m definitively wrong b/c of a press conference on January 5.

I don't think a QB at #4 can be ruled out because I do not think McCoy is THE GUY

Every time I suggest that Cleveland can be in the QB market you attempt to suggest that they are not.

Yea but McCoy seems to be Holmgren’s guy

Everyone keeps bringing up Cleveland as a QB candidate, I don’t see it. They like McCoy and have a chance to build around him

I believe they could be, but you have refused to accept that as a possibility. Knowing how picks 1-5 will possibly play out and with one top 10 rated QB on the board after Luck, identifying potential trade partners or staying put requires a risk assessment of those who my select a QB. The whole reason the Colts are a question mark is because they can go either way and if they choose to trade out Luck will be gone to another team that needs a QB (Cleveland or Miami, Jacksonville seems to be firmly behind Gabbert), the only other team above us that would be of some risk is Cleveland. I’m not ruling them out as potentially drafting a QB, but your argument suggests that you don’t think they will. If you are the GM and you want to draft RGIII you would not take the RISK and assume that Cleveland will not draft him just because they have Colt McCoy, thus…..they are a QB needy team.

So you're allowed to have an opinion that they are in the QB market at #4, but I'm not?

I think he's saying you're not allowed to have ANY opinions.

What do you think of that?

Oh, wait…….

You are dude.

But maybe we are saying the same thing.

My “They Are” is based on: If you are the GM and you want to draft RGIII you would not take the RISK and assume that Cleveland will not draft him just because they have Colt McCoy, thus…..they are a QB needy team.

Your "They Aren’t is based on: Gamesmanship and getting someone to offer them a trade because they really like Colt and want to build around him.

Either way you have to assume they are and trade ahead of them or plan for someone other than RGIII after the #4 pick. So the notion that the will take a QB, real or contrived, has to be factored in as a legitimate option. Cleveland holds the gun. If they say I’m going to shoot you in the face, whether they have the heart for it or not, you have to assume they will shoot.

From a fans view which as credible on organizational happenings as anyones… I personally see them trading their pick to the highest bidder. Even if Griffin’s there, I don’t think his flashy improv style match Holmgren’s past. The Browns lovvvvvvvvee to acquire more picks through trade, as they’ve done a lot in recent years. Obviously, if he’s there and they don’t take him, there may be an organized mass suicide by fans, but they are definitely a wild card. It’s easy to mock a QB to them because of team needs, but no one really can know.
If Wilson is to come out, we all know how QB stock works with the months of anticipation leading up to the draft. People now even are saying Griffin should be the No. 1 pick. I could easily see that changing again and Wilson becoming the coveted #2 guy on boards, ala Mark Sanchezesque.I think Washington’s as much of a wild card at 6 as Cleveland is at 4

the art of senior leadership

saying things that people will twist into what they want to hear. It’s the politics of the NFL.

aFan4Life - January 6, 2012 reply

Exactly. Especially a non-emotional, monotone dude like Holmgren

it's the stuff that drives me mad

I’d rather but heads with someone endlessly than talk to someone who won’t really committ to anything definitive.

aFan4Life - January 6, 2012 reply

For him as a developing QB, it probably wouldn’t be smart to come out with only one year of starting under his belt, with a couple snaps taken last season as well. As a prospect in the NFL Draft and where he stands, it’d be very smart for him to come out. Even if Landry Jones entered the draft, I’d prefer Wilson to him anyways. With Jones and Barkley returning, what was a class of QBs has become slim pickin’s. I definitely see him being a middle-first-round guy if he were to because of his ceiling, he’d be worth a looksy if you ask me, even in that pocket spread offense, he’s a pretty nimble and mobile guy. He’s a much better prospect than Mallett was coming out.

I murder people an stow them in my kitchen freezer

We all have our ticks… ha… haha…………….

Whoa...that took it too far.

Yea just a little

you guys don't do that...?

I think I can safely say the only thing Parks murders is fashion sense.

The only thing I murder is a joke.

That line is from something

What movie is that from?

mbedner - January 6, 2012 via mobile reply

Personally, I'm partial to SEC QBs.

The reason I wanted Mallett, aside from how awesome he is, is that he played against the best defenses in the country.

What if....The Rams take RG3 and trade Bradford?

It could happen.

Bradford could be damaged goods already

That would be a ballsy move for a first year coach. You're right it could happen.

But Bradford/Kalil is a better package than RG3 and the current line

I think that's where Fisher will go.

Maybe RG3 will remind him of a young McNair?

Or a young Young

Or Kerry Collins.

Fisher could have had Collins in '95 draft, he drafte McNair 3rd and Collins went 5th to Carolina

Ki-Jana Carter went first and Michael Westbrook went 4th, ughh…

17 year reach back facepalm.

Damn. I can't believe that was 17 years ago.

yea i see them going LT too

jason smith hasn’t amounted to much and is oft-injured, and then they could swing stafford over to the right side….i especially think they’ll go offensive line (if not trade back) if fischer is hired

atark001 - January 6, 2012 reply

But they'd likely still get a #1+ for Bradford.

So they’d get a second (though later) bite of the first round apple, if they were to trade him IN DRAFT, plus another mid round pick or two (possibly a 4th or so, and a 3rd in 2013). It might make sense to do that. Plus the teams that would be most likely trading partners are picking earlyish in the first, too (Washington, Miami, Seattle, Buff, etc.). Would make sense. Of course, if they don’t pull that trade off during the draft, they’d be hurting a bit next season, since the picks would have to be for 2013 or picks+players.

Good point, but then you're just left with a slightly younger QB and a crappy line.

Kalil will go to more pro bowls then RG3 will.

TW for Bradford, straight up.

my guess is the Rams wouldn't take TW plus our number 6 pick for Bradford (could be the start of a deal but you'd have to offer more)

Their loss.

agree…

Freddyn - January 6, 2012 reply

They would get Griffin + a high draft pick.

Maybe not, by trading Bradford then they would be depreciating his value.

I’d be surprised if a 1st would even be thrown into the deal. Maybe a 2nd plus a player. In negotiations teams will point to Bradford being injury plagues and “regressing” in ’11.

But hypothetically, if the new coach is in love with Griffin and wants to trade Bradford, the cost to get Bradford would be less than the cost fot Griffin.

They would have to get Griffin before trading Bradford.

Once they have Griffin, they have showed their hand, and Bradford’s value gets a lot lower.

tman5 - January 6, 2012 reply

actually they wouldn't

b/c they have the 2nd pick its not like they can lose out on Griffin. They can trade Bradford the first day of free agency and feel completely confident of getting their guy.

I agree with what you're saying, but what I'm saying is the minute you put Bradford on the trading block

He’s going to be looked at as damaged goods, the leverage for the trade would swing to the team acquiring Bradford. Shanny liked him a lot in college, so who knows? One thing would be interesting is that they are interviewing a HC candidate who would likely install the 3-4. So then, potentially, the Skins could trade a player plus a 2nd rounder for Bradford. But are you really willing to give up a guy like Orakpo + 2nd rounder for Bradford at that point?

Orakpo is great, don't get me wrong.

But is his production greater than what a good QB could bring?

Also with the emergenc of Kerrigan, would Rob Jackson or Markus White be that big of a difference?

AV is a stat some try to give a number to represent the value of a player to a team.

In 2010 both Bradford and Orakpo had the exact same approximate value of 9.

Player for player ala Portis/Champ

How'd that work out?

Two trips to the playoffs and the Redskins 2nd leading rusher.

I’d say pretty well.

I'd much rather have a shutdown corner.

An 11 time pro bowler, a 3 time all pro, and a guy that’s still playing. O and the Broncos have made the playoffs three times, so I guess they win by your metric.

If we could have worked things out with Bailey then we would have likely had a secondary featuring Bailey, Taylor, Springs for 4 years. The #9 pick in 2009 would have been freed up which could have lead to Aaron Rodger and best RB available (Gore or JJ Arrington), instead of Carlos Rogers and Campbell. OR we may have grabbed a safety at #25 like Nick Collins, Brodney Pool, or Josh Bullocks, and in turn drafted Adrian Peterson instead of Laron Landry the next year.

Really?

Would those teams that Gibbs coached have been that much different with Champ Bailey? I think not.

Southeast Jerome was awesome.

And I don’t know what the hell that fantasy is you laid out in your second paragraph, but okay.

Yes, you wouldn't have had to waste a Top 10 pick on a CB in '05

Really?

Would those teams that Gibbs coached have been that much different with Champ Bailey? I think not.

They didn't HAVE to draft a corner.

There is also a chance Gibbs takes Campbell before Rodgers regardless.

They didn't have to draft a corner? You were comfortable with Springs/Walt Harris?

Yes

So if someone came to you today...

and said

“Hey I’ll give you this running back who will make one pro bowl with you for your cornerback who will be the only Hall of Famer on your team, will make 7 pro bowls with us, play longer, and o give us your 2nd round draft pick”

You would do that?

If someone came up to me and asked if I wanted a running back,

I’d ask what the hell am I supposed to do with him.

iH8dallas - January 6, 2012 via mobile reply

or you could have just not made the trade up to 25 that year...and have all the extra picks

don’t forget the 2004 2nd rounder from the Portis deal.

We got hosed

as usual

what I don’t get is Shanny was on the winning end on so many of those deals, WTF trade for McNabb???

Maybe iH8 can justify the deal for you

Except IH8 got it wrong.

It wasn’t Player for Player….
It was Champ PLUS A PICK for Portis.

We sent a pick to Denver in that trade, too.

It was a 2nd RD pick that Shanahan used on Tatum Bell.

It was a terrible trade…Shanahan took advantage of Gibbs w/o even buying him dinner.

Also it’s with deep regret that I inform you that the 25th pick used to draft Campbell was acquired via a trade with Shanny as well.

Diesel44 - January 6, 2012 reply

Tatum Bell"Hop"

Also it’s with deep regret that I inform you that the 25th pick used to draft Campbell was acquired via a trade with Shanny as well.

The bounty of which he used to trade up to get Jay Cutler the next year. SON OF A…

and if that wasn't enough:

the 4th rounder (in 06) from the Campbell trade was used to draft Brandon Marshall, and our 3rd rounder in 2007 which we wisely traded in addition to our 4th rounder in 2008 for T.J. Duckett, was used to acquire Ryan Harris.

SON OF A....

agree 100%

RBs are much easier to find, especially for Shanny’s system than a shut down CB.

aFan4Life - January 7, 2012 reply

he should be looked at as damaged goods, but I doubt he will

QB’s retain and even add to their value when you wouldn’t expect them to. Jeff George after 4 years of being awful netted the Colts 2 firsts and a 3rd. Rick Mirer, one of the biggest busts all time, was traded along with a 4th for the 11th overall pick. Etc.

You dropped the "O"?

haha I had asked Ken awhile ago to fix it

i didn’t even notice it until you said something

I need to have Ken add a space in mine, then.

Should have been Bill Ward not BillWard.

Agreed

Bradfords albatross of a contract and performance this year would definitely decrease his value. Essentially the Rams would be “giving up on him” after only two years. No one would dole out a premium pick in that scenario, except the Raiders,

He's owed $21 mil over the next two years

10.5 a year for the next two years roughly.

As opposed to a rookie at what, 5-7 mil?

Copious 1 - January 6, 2012 via Android app reply

Jones got just above 4 at #6 last year, Von Miller got 21 mil guaranteed

http://surfpoet.com/the-question-is-moot/

This trade is all mute...

if / when Jeff Fisher is hired. He is not going to go for a rookie similar to VY (yes, RG3 is better), since it is long understood, Fisher lobbied against drafting VY.

Cleveland @ #4 is our only real concern….

jgibbsfan1 - January 7, 2012 reply

Moot not mute, I made the same mistake all the time until recently haha

Parks Smith - January 7, 2012 reply

The question is moot

mkjo - January 7, 2012 reply

in this case it could be mute as well since you could say there won't be any trade noise

Steve Shoup - January 7, 2012 reply

thanks to all of you...

curious why no one commented on my statement…

jgibbsfan1 - January 7, 2012 reply

What if...Wilson is waiting to show out on national TV tonight?

Then he has a great game and says, “I’m rich bitch.”

I just noticed, kickoff time isn't in the story.

What time is the game?

iH8dallas - January 6, 2012 via mobile reply

8PM, sorry about that

Sweet. I get FOX.

I’ll watch this one and then give my expert analysis.

iH8dallas - January 6, 2012 via mobile reply

But knowing you..

You’re pissed Fringe isn’t on.

Diesel44 - January 6, 2012 reply

It's reruns until next week I think.

I bet in the alternate universe new episodes of Fringe are on everyday.

iH8dallas - January 6, 2012 via mobile reply

Where is Tiller to tell us that we're all wrong to even like this guy...?

The Agent C 83 - January 6, 2012 reply

He's back on the watch after the O'brien hire

Guaranteed Its not OBrien, and yes, I’m much more concerned with that now

by Tiller56 on Jan 5, 2012 8:03 PM EST