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Does Ryan Tannehill fit in with the Shana-Plan?

COLLEGE STATION, TX - SEPTEMBER 24:  Quarterback Ryan Tannehill #17 of the Texas A&M Aggies looks for a receiver as he throws against the Oklahoma State Cowboys at Kyle Field on September 24, 2011 in College Station, Texas.  (Photo by Bob Levey/Getty Images)

Bob Levey - Getty Images

8 months ago: COLLEGE STATION, TX - SEPTEMBER 24: Quarterback Ryan Tannehill #17 of the Texas A&M Aggies looks for a receiver as he throws against the Oklahoma State Cowboys at Kyle Field on September 24, 2011 in College Station, Texas. (Photo by Bob Levey/Getty Images)

It has been well documented that the Redskins need a quarterback, Kyle Shanahan has said so himself, while Mike Shanahan has said he's been watching tape of college prospects for a while now. With the news that Shanahan and his Redskins staff will be coaching the South team for the up coming Senior Bowl, it's the ideal chance for Shanahan to get an up close and personal look at some senior college prospects (last year the Bengals got an early look at Andy Dalton, worked out pretty well for them).

Ryan Tannehill is one of the more intriguing of the prospects likely to take part. A 6'4", 220 pound wide receiver-turned-quarterback, Tannehill has obvious mobility that you would expect from a former wide receiver.But what else does he have to go with that mobility. Having spent the weekend watching every Tannehill throw against Oklahoma State, Arkansas, Baylor and Northwestern, I came away fairly impressed (having been pretty skeptical of how good a quarterback could be after only recently switching from wide receiver). Here's what I saw (going to steal Wes Bunting's format for this post).

What I like:

  • Good accuracy. Really impressed with his ball placement on a lot of throws. Didn't only hit his receivers in stride, but in places only they could get the ball.
  • Solid arm strength. He doesn't have a Matthew Stafford elite arm, but he shouldn't have a problem making all the throws at the next level.
  • Quick release. One of the first things that stood out to me. I thought he had a really nice quick release, not many mechanical flaws. (Dan Kadar of Mocking the Draft isn't so sure, but we'll get to that later)
  • Throws well on the run. I saw multiple throws of him running to both his left and right. Does a really nice job opening his body when running to his left.

Star-divide

  • Very good with timing routes (outs, digs, comebacks etc). Anticipates the receivers cut and has the ball ready for them to catch when they come out of their break. Trusts his receiver to time his route properly and make the catch.
  • Has experience under center. No real troubles with dropping back. His footwork is good, but can be refined slightly but nothing serious.
  • Definitely a passer first. One of the things you worry about a mobile quarterback is that they will make on read and take off. Tannehill will wait for routes to develop, extend the play if he has to, but will keep his eyes downfield.
  • Makes surprisingly good pre-snap reads. Wasn't expecting him to be as advanced as he appears to be, but he certainly wasn't afraid to audible out of a play. Recognizes blitzing defenders.
  • Mobility is an obvious plus. As I said he's a passer first. He will step up in the pocket, drop a shoulder, pump fake etc to avoid pressure. But when a play breaks down he has the ability to roll-out of the pocket and scramble for yards if he has to.
  • When he has the time to step into a throw, can really put zip behind it. A play against Baylor sticks out in my mind. It was a deep crossing pattern. He had good protection and waited for the route to develop, stepped into his throw and gunned it across the middle and fit it over a linebacker into the receivers hands in stride.
  • Sells play-action well. Fully extends the ball to the back on the fake. Head comes round slightly quicker than you would like, but he gets linebackers to bite.

What I don't like:

  • Has a slight tendency to lock on to a target. This can give away his intentions to the defense and has got him in interception troubles.
  • Also means he can miss other targets who are open. Against Arkansas he locked on to Swope on a play-action bootleg, when he had a tight end on a seven yard crossing pattern open. Threw the ball to Swope and lost a yard on the play.
  • Very occasionally forces a throw. Two of his interceptions against Oklahoma State came from him locking on and forcing the throw.
  • Can float some throws, particularly deeper ones. He has the arm strength to make the throws flatter, but needs to work on it.
  • Needs to work on his touch throws, things like fade routes aren't a strength.
  • General mechanics (as with all quarterbacks) can be improved. Needs to make sure his release point is consistent.
  • When you look at his record, consistency would appear to fluctuate. However, this is to be expected with a quarterback with as little experience as he has had. I think the more reps he gets, the more consistent he will become.

As usual with draft related posts, I asked Mocking the Draft's Dan Kadar for his opinion.

You've hit about all of the key points on Tannehill. Here are a few red flags for me. His release point is inconsistent. Some throws he really cocks the ball back and fires, which takes a long time. While it's not Tim Tebow-like release, it's elongated at times more than you'd prefer. His release was much better this season than last. But you'll see it mostly on throws outside the numbers. Another thing that strikes me about Tannehill is that he'll float his passes. This can work in college because defenders will routinely take bad angles or don't have the quick instincts to make a play on the ball. That's greatly lessened in the NFL. If he floats passes in the NFL, there is a much greater chance they'll get intercepted. His throws will float when he throws off his back foot.


The most critical flaw I see in Tannehill is his blitz pickup after the snap. As you mentioned, he's good pre-snap at finding the blitzers in front of him and calling an audible. But after the snap, he's not as good at picking up disguised blitzes, especially from safeties and corners. His mobility has kept him out of trouble in college, but he won't be able to move around as much laterally in the pocket.

While I'm using Wes Bunting and the National Football Post's format, I might as well use their grading system.

Overall, I don't see any major flaws in Tannehill's game. I don't feel like there's much he can not do at the next level. I was impressed considering the amount of time he's had at quarterback after being moved from wide receiver. I think he'll be at his best at the next level in a system that has a good run game that can build play-action bootlegs from. In the pocket he's best suited to timing routes with the occasional deep throw. I think he'd be a very nice fit in the Shanahan system and could be a very good quarterback in the future if he's given the time to mature. I think he will probably be taken in the top 20-25 (maybe even top 15) picks, but I wouldn't say he's worth sixth overall at this point. So any move for him would require trading back from six, or moving back into the first round after taking someone at six.

6.9, D.

Editors Update:

: Multiple sources have told me Ryan Tannehill/QB/Tex A&M suffered a significant foot injury last week during training.

1 recs  |  193 comments

Comments

I showed my early hand of cards earlier today--

I would drop lower in the first, pick up some extra picks and take Tannehill.

A third QB is going to sneak into the Top 10 and it could be Tannehill
Probably more like the top 15

I love Tannehill and have advocated trading back to get him but i will be upset if we take him in the top 10

Will you be even more upset if we try to trade back for him and he's gone?
I think the Cowboys may be a total wild card for a QB.

Kitna is ancient, Romo will be 32, and McGee will be 27. If I was Jurrah, I’d put McGee on the market and see what you could get for him and then potentially draft one of these “second tier” guys. Lets say Romo has 2-3 years left, are they really going to start McGee at age 30?

I think if they put McGee on the market they’d get a 3rd or 4th rounder. Hell, I’d take him.

McGee is garbage.
ALL A&M QB's ROCK!

Lets keep em away from Dallas!!

Great analysis
That's why they pay me the big bucks.

“iH8, what are your thoughts on Rex Grossman?”

“I’m glad you asked. He sucks balls.”

i don't see it

I know Cowboys fans want to get rid of Romo (which is further evidence of their level of intelligence), but he’s a top 10 QB year in year out, and only 32. I could see them grabbing a back up in the 3rd or 4th round, but not first round.

But heres my thing, I don't see QBs lasting past 35 that much any more and Romo has been extremely injury prone lately

I’m not advocating a 1st round pick being used, but I think a smart GM would test the waters with McGee. I think I’d even prefer McGee to Flynn if they were both free agents.

they might look to trade McGee, but I still think I'd take Flynn

I think this year there are more QB options in general (Flynn, Campbell, Orton, Stanton etc.) than last year, which is why we had 6 guys taken in the top 40 picks.

Flynn for sure.
If the Cowboys made me their GM then y'all would be in trouble
You need K, P and WR...just saying chief ;)

1st, 2nd, 3rd round

Why don't you see QBs lasting past 35?

Plenty are playing 37, 38, plus. What is changing in your mind?

Who? effectively?
Plenty are playing 37, 38, plus. What is changing in your mind?
It was your comment. I asked you why you felt 35 was the cutoff

You might have a point. You might not. But no one knows bec you didnt elaborate

It was your comment, I asked you who are the "plenty" playing 37, 38, plus

You might have a point. You might not. But no one knows bec you didnt elaborate

I'm moving on to something more interesting if there you offer nothing substantive

Your comment: But heres my thing, I don’t see QBs lasting past 35 that much any more and Romo has been extremely injury prone lately

My reply: Why don’t you see QBs lasting past 35?

My question is who the "plenty playing 37, 28, plus"?

There is one starting QB that is over 35 (Matt Hasslebeck) and he now has a Sophomore breathing down his neck.

Really?

I dont think that thought has crossed Jerry’s mind. Romo has five years left. Anything can happen and if you are right, that is an amazing call!

NO- he is not a #6 pick talent

Weeden can start in the NFL. Everybody will not be gone

I think he'll be the third QB taken.

I don’t see him getting into the top 10 though. Seattle at 12 might be tempted if they want a QB.

Seattle is sticking with TJax until Carroll's boy comes out next year.

Since playing us TJax was 89 for 142 (63%) in his last five games with 1,026 yards, 5 TDs, and 1 INT. Seattle needs to re-sign Lynch, and if they think he’s too expensive they may reach for a RB or bid for Richardson.

probably

but that was against the Rams, Cards and Bears some of the worst pass defenses in the league.

I can't make the schedule Steve, I can only preach the gospel
haha

I’m just saying if I was Carroll or a Seahawks fan I wouldn’t be counting on T-Jax for much. I don’t think they go for one in the first, but they could go for Foles in the 2nd.

I wouldn't either if I'm a Seahawks fan. Carroll just seems to think otherwise in my opinion.
Then we should take him @ 6.
Why will a third QB will be top ten?
Not sure if he does or doesn't...but I can guarantee

you the Shanahans are not going to roll the dice and hope their guy falls to them in the late first, early second, just to watch someone swoop in…

All of this analysis is important and very good….but I hope people realize that the Shanahans are going to take their guy in the early first. They don’t have any other options after the QB evaluation showing the last 2 years.

It is what it is.

Unless Tyler Wilson commits to the league, I’m sorry Parks but you are wrong at this point in the draft process. Unless someone puts on a show at the combine, Tannehill is the 3rd best QB and I don’t even think he grades out to get picked in the 2nd round.

I thought you would grade him higher

Just based on your analysis, but ultimately I can see where you get that grade. I just got done watching some of the videos of him on that draft site ih8 posted earlier today(good site).

I was not impressed :(. I felt like he was a one read guy. He showed developmental promise but ultimately I see him more as a…6.5

But its hard to say because so many college offenses really only need 1 read and mayyyyybe a checkdown / hot read.

I’m going to say that he gets absolutely killed by delayed blitzes and I saw him take quite a few “a” gaps to the FACE.

I can see him rising into the 1st easily though. NOT a top 15 talent to me. But again, I watched some cut ups from his games on a random draft site..

yea i'm not big on tannehill in the first round

nothing I’ve seen warrants a first round grade, besides his physical potential, which I understand many teams feel does warrant a high pick…but he looks extremely raw to me technique and decision making-wise, and I just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a first round pick on him, especially when the second round to third round will be littered with QBs

Yeah, I was thinking 6.8 or lower

to start with and as I said in the piece, I wasn’t high on him to start with. But the more I watched him, the more I felt there isn’t anything he can’t do. I think he’d challenge Rex for week 1 starting job and take it by mid-season, similar to Jay Cutler in Denver under Shanahan.

Out of interest, which games did you watch?

The only thing Rex will be challenging week one is the Special K challenge.
Maybe the Activia Challenge.

Or maybe somebody will smack him with a glove and challenge him to a duel.

But he won’t be challenging for the Redskins starting QB spot.

Shanahan is not looking to draft

“can challenge Rex” week 1…trust me…

Griffin might not be able to beat out Rex in week 1
If we make the mistake of trading up for Griffin

he starts week one, regardless. You don’t sit a guy you just effectively ruined two entire drafts over, as I don’t think we’d have a single pick in the first three rounds for two years, even three, to move up for him. He starts, and he sinks or swims as he goes.

Move back to around 10, take Tannehill, and pick up 2nd or 3rd rd pick

Hopefully one of the major prospects will still be around to entice someone to want to trade up into our spot

What if...

teams below us (#10-#15) do not want to trade up? Or are not willing to offer very much? What do we do then?

Your scenario is easy to say, but needs a partner.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that fact.
Im for trading up and going after RGIII or Luck

Anything truly worth having requires hard work and sacrifice.

We need a top flight QB. ASAP.
Tannehill sounds like a project.

very interesting, thanks

I’m not sure if I’m sold on him but I won’t complain if this is the QB Shanahan picks for his future.

I would complain

but I’d get over it (fast) as long as Rex grossman never plays another game in a Redskins uniform.

I wish we had something different to talk about.

F*ck Rex Grossman.

+1

i feel like we’ve already discussed the QB topic to death even before the season ended…free agency is two months away too……

That will be interesting. Judging from the community GM last year we can get a feel for FAs.

Last year we wanted franklin and Jenkins…got Cofield and Bowen.

I hope we get a good WR in FA.

i'm looking forward to free agency this year

i think we’re going to be really active, and there seems to be a lot of talent out there in the areas we need help in…whoever we get in free agency will affect our draft strategy too i think, so it seems a bit premature to delve too deeply into draft hypotheticals (however fun they may be)

i’m curious as to what we’ll do with landry and lichtensteiger, as both were starters, are now free agents, and are coming off of serious injuries….seems to be viable options in free agency at guard and safety as well

I like Kory.

If Landry doesn’t come back I won’t be upset. He’s overrated.

What about Cooley?

kory's injury occurred so early in the season too that he'll have ample time to recover

which can’t be said of landry (from what I read he hasn’t even decided to have surgery or not yet) (branch from oakland and griffin from tennessee are free agents that could step in potentially)

i think we’ll keep cooley, and i also think they’ll make a push to resign davis, but like you said, i hope we get one of the big WRs

What about Hightower?

Even if he comes back I think he’s 3rd on the depth chart.

that'll be an interesting decision

I personally would like him back (i’m just a fan of the dude’s attitude, work ethic, and all around skills)…but i’m not sure how much he’ll cost, and like you said he won’t be the first option here (i think he could be a great third down back though)

Also, I think we have to resign Carriker.
I definetly agree....a 3-4 line needs three quality defense ends for the rotation I believe

and with him, bowen, and jenkins, we’d be pretty stout upfront

It's going to be tough to resign Carriker

He’s going to want starter money similar to Stephen Bowen (5 YRs 26 mil). He’s not worth it.

I think he's gone, especially with the way he has been talking.
I think Hightower is #1 as of now
Agreed.

It’s not like he was a bum that couldn’t run the ball. Our ground game was “ok” with him in, and that was before the line figured out how to play together.

Carl Nicks, Carl Nicks, Carl Nicks...

make him the highest paid OG.

Big-Time WR would help also.

Carl Nicks is a massive man

which makes me wonder how well he would fit in with our zone scheme, because it seems shanahan favors lighter linemen

you and me both - I don't hate Rex but I will dread next season if he is our starter
My Dad's an Aggie, so this has me excited.

If we can trade down, and continue to add depth at all positions, were going to be in such good shape.

My only worry is just thinking back to Ramsey and Campbell. I’d love to finally draft THAT GUY for the first time since Shuler.

The big difference is that now, contracts make it so that we can cut ties with a lost cause after a year.

He went to NC A&T?
I see what you did there.
Utah State?
Tate High School?

(Graham Gano’s alma mater, also the Aggies)

Uk, I like your points about being a passer first...I think he would be a good fit in the Shanaplan

“Definitely a passer first. One of the things you worry about a mobile quarterback is that they will make on read and take off. (Yes) Tannehill will wait for routes to develop, extend the play if he has to, but will keep his eyes downfield.”

Scenario:
- Take Flynn in Free agency (as long as he doesnt cost us draft picks)
- Trade down and aquire additional picks
- Draft Tannehill in the 1st round 18th overall

He'll get sniped before then.
Biggest reach since Tebow

This is a borderline 2nd/3rd round talent you’re talking about going in the top 15.

Name to watch in the draft: Kirk Cousins.
I agree

He is not a player that seems to get much respect but he has a lot of upside. I think he might be a QB to keep an eye on thru the evaluation process

If you like guys that lock on to one target pre-snap and stare them down the whole play, then Cousins is your guy.
maybe we could train em to use both eyes separately of one another so he could lock in on two guys
This is from a scouting report by Chad Reuter
Reading Defenses: Possesses a solid knowledge of his offense and seems to know where defenses are vulnerable. Looks off safeties to open vertical routes and will come off one receiver if covered to find second option (though still typically working one half of the field). Identifies blitzers on most plays, occasionally missing a late blind-side rusher and paying the price by taking a big hit. Loses sense of the clock at times, resulting in penalties or failing to get a play off before the end of the quarter.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1272574/kirk-cousins
Kirk Cousins has his faults & I am not saying to even think about using anything higher than a 3rd rd. pick on him, (I actually said to keep an eye on him thru the draft evaluation process) but he is talented, has improved every year, is a team captain & is the prototypical size for the position. Parks evaluation leaves an awful lot to be desired……

This from Scouts Inc
Inconsistent after the snap. Willing to take big hit if it meant buying them enough time to separate. Flashed ability to check down when first option wasn’t there. Flashed ability to get outside the tackle box and throw the ball away when nothing is available downfield. However, locked onto primary receiver far too much and doesn’t see the whole field. Missed hot reads and made some questionable decisions in the face of pressure. Made riskier throws than needed at too at times. Anticipation is slightly below average and timing is just average. Tried to thread the needle a little too often.

I wanted to like Cousins but his play speaks for itself, watch his games. He’ll get blown up in the league. He has all the physical tools needed and is a smart dude, but once the ball is snap he seems to have trouble processing plays. Look at any of his games, his head doesn’t move and he doesn’t scan the field. Here’s his tape from the Ohio State game: http://draftbreakdown.com/kirk-cousins-vs-ohio-state-2011

He can get away with in college but not in the league

My thoughts while watching that clip

& I don’t agree about him locking in on one reciever, many of those quick outs & slants call for a very fast acting play. Scroll up & see what Chad Reuters take on him was, I know that he is flawed, just disagreeing on what his flaws are…
1:00 Directs his WR & then throws a strike
2:15 looks left then throws right WR drops ball
2:50 bad pass
3:25 looks left, rolls out & throws right
3;53 Haha, not helping my case, terrible fumble
4:19 Goes quickly to his 2nd read
5:43 bad throw, good catch
5:48 bad throw, should have been pick six but a very good play by CB
6:08 looked middle, threw right, very good throw
6:45 terrible int.
7:42 good pump fake, slightly overthrew WR
7:58 bad int.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1008061-outback-bowl-2012-mark-richt-goes-gutless-kirk-cousins-leads-michigan-state
I still like him as a guy to keep an eye on……

I can't take this seriously b/c you finished with bleacher report

I understand the slant game, but I don’t think he scans the field and if you think he does then there is no sense arguing it. I’m hoping an Outback Bowl video will come up soon. Here is one of his games last year if you want to take a look: http://draftbreakdown.com/kirk-cousins-vs-michigan-2010

I know it's Bleachr report but it's not an eval.

It’s an article posted on UGAs web site

That link is from May 24th 2011

about a game played in 2011. A little out of date.

I said:
Here is one of his games last year if you want to take a look:

It’s still relative if you want to see how someone regresses, or progressed, Mrs. Cousins.

But it is not the QB he is today which would have been a nice starting point

I saw the MSU bowl game. He is nothing special- not a first or second rounder

Do you actually read my posts or just try to argue with them for no reason?
It’s still relative if you want to see how someone regresses, or progressed,

If you don’t think it would be a good game to watch then don’t watch it. It’s that simple or just change your screen name to “peanut gallery”

Kirk Cousins is in that 3rd group of QBs

NOT in Tier 1 – Luck, RG3
Not in Tier 2- Tannehill, Foles, Weeden, Osweiler
But in Tier 3 – Cousins, Moore, Keenen,Russell Wilson ’

All QBs in tier 3 will be drafted just in the 4-7 RD range.

I agree with that, he's played his way out of the 2nd tier
Cousins

Is the only one of that group (tier 3) that would interest me in the later rounds

Moore is interesting late- 6, 7, UD rounds

You cant ignore 50 wins. And if you can get a real cheap eval, it is worth it

I agree

but i will say Cousins could also rise back up to the end of the 2nd tier with a strong all-star game and combine.

Good players play big in big games

and he did not

we need to at least get a tier 2 QB
Haha

What an insightful evaluation…are you now subbing for Tiller ??

It was just a statement man, what are you his mom? Would you like me to do a full evaluation?
Why is it impossible to have a conversation with you about topics that you & I or anyone else disagree on ??

No, Parks, I am not his mom

Laughing at me and calling me "Tiller" (that's a lowest of blows) was supposed to be a conversation?

ummm…. well maybe you have a point there. Your initial reply & then Rodskins jumping in was irritating

Let just kiss and make up Mrs. Cousins
ill bring the beer and ignore the camera in the corner
All I know is that the Redskins are taking one of the first three QBs on draft day.
If they sign Flynn I don't think they will
Cousins didn't impress me, especially in the Outback Bowl.

He telegraphs the hell out of his passes. He continues to plummet, was a 1st round prospect, then 2nd to 3rd, and now all the way to the 5th round. I don’t want any part of him after watching the bowl.

He drove his team 85 yards in 1:47 with no T.O.s to tie the game

A Big Ten win over an SEC team ?? Yes he did have two int.s during regulation & another in OT but I thought he played well over all. As I said above

I think he might be a QB to keep an eye on thru the evaluation process
which means I think at this point he has potential, not that I am advocating picking him at six

Why are you assuming I thought you wanted to draft him high?
I am not assuming anything

The way you jumped in on a reply that I made to Terps about a marginal player that I said we should keep an eye on thru the Combine & All-star Bowl games made it sound like you thought I was saying he would be the Redskins QB of the future.

All I said is I don't like him and he telegraphs passes. If you like him, cool. I don't.

I was trying to say you are wrong to keep an eye on him or anything. I felt the same way until the bowl game, like I said. But if you want to get iH8 to like him then just post this picture:

He has the prototypical NFL ass.

Nice cheeks, tight thighs and all the intangibles.

However I’ve marked him off my list because he wears #8,which after the Grossman debacle is something that can’t be ignored.

especially if you put a picture of Rob Pattinson on there.
Who the hell is Rob Pattinson?
some guy who wears glitter and calls himself a vampire
We call him R-Pat.
Do you mean

Cedric Diggory ??

I own full Hufflepuff robes, just putting it out there.
Good man Andrew

but I had you figured for Ravenclaw

damn you LARPers!
We are not LARPers

We are readers

i know it was a poor attempt at humor
plus that is just what a Larper would say
I had to google LARPers

because I had no idea what it meant. My whole family really got into all of the Harry Potter books & movies when my kids were younger.

im just fuckin with ya....

one of my many jobs back in the day was at a books-a-million and we had kids (with their parents) come dressed up and play roles in the store when the books were about to be released………being hungover and laughing my ass off didn’t help the headache. But hey, we all have our little “geeky” things.

Oh God that sounds a little creepy.

Speaking of kid’s books, I wonder if they still print the “Goosebumps” series. Those were the shit.

not a fan of Harry Potter ??

i have only seen a bit of one movie and have not read any of the books
I agree

I have seen him several times this year and other than the Wisconsin game, he impressed me. Especially the way he lef his team down the field to tie the game up against Georgia in the bowl game. Just awesome. He’s a leader and someone a team will get behind and follow. He’s got fairly good arm strength, can move pretty well and has great accuracy. Also, I think we can get him in the second round.

meant to say after the second round
He grades 6.9 D and is a top 25 pick?

Wow. You are tough. Should we go home after day one?

Great post. Confused on the grade though. Would think a first round pick would have to be at least a B.

Do you think this guy has potential pro bowl talent, above average franchise starter talent (eg Ryan, Romo) or starter talent (eg Flacco)

Click on the grade it will take you to the grading system I was using.

6.9 means that he: Contributes first year and starts second year… Must be able to get on the field and make a contribution as a rookie… Expected to start his second year in the league.

D means: This prospect has NO weakness in any critical factors, but will need time and development in order to fulfill his potential.

ok thanks

What is his LIKELY upside in your opinion: pro bowler, above avg starter like ryan or average starter like flacco?

thanks

I'm not really 100% sure.

It depends on the team around him, the time he’s given to develop etc. Could he be a pro bowler in 5 years time, sure. But so could everyone in the draft.

Would you take him 20-25 or do you see someone you like comparable later in the first or second rounds?
I'd be fine taking him at 20-25.

Haven’t really looked at many other QB’s. Seen Luck, RG3, bit of Foles and now Tannehill. Would like to see more of guys like Russell Wilson but there isn’t enough good footage anywhere of him. Also would like to see more of Weeden.

Weeden is a good prospect skills wise, but he is 28. So he is finished in 7 years according to Parks
What if Blackmon slipped to 6

and we took him and then Weeden in the second or third….. Just throwing it out there. I have seen him play a lot too and he’s somebody I could see Shanahan drafting because of his maturity. He’s like drafting a 4th year player!

We may go that route.
Jason Campbell is an interesting case when it comes to sacks. Campbell has shown some skills

with the Raiders that he was not particularly adept at while with the Skins. Under Pressure: Violence of the Rams – http://footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2012/under-pressure-violence-rams. Surprisingly, in the table that accompanies this article, in sack rate Campbell was the least sacked QB of the 47 listed. The second QB was Drew Brees whose sack rate was about half of the league average. Furthermore, Grossman had a lower sack rate then the league average while Beck was near the leagues worst. “It’s a little simplistic, but in timing the sacks, there’s a general rule that the quicker the sack, the more likely it was the fault of the offensive line, and the longer the sack, the more likely it was a coverage sack or otherwise a responsibility of the quarterback and the receivers.” The Skins excluding Beck did OK on sacks, but not on QB hits (108). Rams were tied with Seattle at 114 hits.

Two points can be made: The OL has a significant impact on QB performance and the time the QB takes to pass, i.e., not hold the ball, effects the OL appearance. Brees gets the ball off fast and he makes quick decisions. Is some rookie QB that is able approximate the eyes and arm of Brees? Is Tannehill the man (in several years)?

If they traded back to get Tannehill

I would be very tempted to send a third rounder to Green Bay for Flynn, and hope that one of the two works out. If they both work out then you trade one of them in a couple of years.

For reference, when the Patriots traded Cassell to the Chiefs, they sent Cassell and Mike Vrabel for a second round pick. Cassell had a lot more on tape than Flynn at this point.

Flynn is a Free Agent.

no trade necessary.

Maybe

they may do what the Patriots did and franchise him in order to get something in trade. Part of the reason the trade package could be so low.

It would be way to expensive....

i think it would cost somewhere around 13 million to put the tag on him

they would eat up a ton of cap space trying to pull something like that.
as others were saying the Packers don't have much Cap space (I think it is under $10 million) and they need to resign a few starters or get replacements.
Same as the patriots

When they did it. It is why the price was low.

But the Chiefs GM came from NE and they had a strong relationship
is he that good?

i dont know about Tannehill.. The upside he has is that he has only played the position for a couple of years and MAY develop into something special. He kind of reminds me some of Fitzpatrick, who looked like he was on the verge of being something special and now has regressed into ordinary.

What separates him from other guys who are not in the top 2 ?

Fowles: Has much better arm strength and better on short passes. Not as mobile but excellent accuracy and touch
Osweiler: Taller with better arm. Also could have used another year to develop. Very tall with wind up motion
Moore: Has it all from the neck up. Lacks physical stature and great arm
Weeden: Has everything you could want. Older. Had exceptional wideout to throw to.
Lindley: Great physical ability. Never put it together on a series of poor teams
Cousins: Flashes of brilliance, but inconsistent
Keenum: Incredible performance. Small framed and gimmick offense

So who do you take ? My guess is NONE at #6. But trade down and all come into focus. Some can wait until the 3rd round. At least Shanahan will get a chance to see some at the Senior Bowl and that will count for a lot

My personal preference would be to take RGIII if he is available at 6, if not take the best player available at 6 (my personal preference is Richardson, who is going to be at least as good as AP, and potentially as good as Emmitt Smith, and then I would either take
Weeden with the number 2 pick (love his maturity and accuracy) or trade back up into the first round if Tannehill blows Shanahan away at the Senior Bowl

For those who say that Weeden is too old and the comparison is to Weinke, I would say that his body hasnt taken a lot of hits and if we get 5-7 years out of ANY QB we are doing better than now. How many years did Theisman play for Gibbs ? Rypien? Let’s get a guy who is good for at least 3 years, for goodness sakes….then we can worry about the next guy..

what the what?

as good as AP? smith? you must be high off your ass if you’re going to compare a college running back to either of those two.

also

i agree with your entire last paragraph whole heartedly

absolutely

watch the way Richardson runs tonight.. He looks every bit as strong as AP or Smith coming out of college.. Neither of those guys broke tackles the way he does.. it is all speculation, but almpost all the draft services have him rated as a superior prospect.. has excellent work ethic.. he is going to be a great pro.. much better prospect than Ingram

Ill have to take your word for it

because I haven’t paid any attention to RB’s this season, cause I don’t want to draft one. I wasn’t huge on ingram anyway, my 6th, maybe even 7th sense told me he would have a short shelf life due to some injury.

no prob

Richardson is a beast. Ingram was a year older but i think there is no comparison between the 2.. If we came out of the first 2 picks of the draft with Richardson and Weeden and used the next pick or 2 to upgrade the O line we would be in great shape. Use free agency to lock up someone like Bowe or VJax and offense would take off..

i wouldnt mind that

but we have some holes in our secondary that really really need filling too

lots of holes

yeah, we need a corner for sure.. and at least 1 safety..maybe Shanahan can call Rogers and tell him his is sorry and wont he pretty please come on back ?? Nah..

we have a lot of holes…

People thought I was a crackhead for mentioning Trent.

He is an awesome RB.

I still think we go QB in round one.

Everyone is talking about a franchise QB and that equates to a QB for 5 years (Weeden) and then looking for another one? If you want a guy who’s old who has probably reached his ceiling, then let’s go Peyton Manning if he becomes available. You can probably get 3 great years out of him. [SARCASM]

I want a guy who can man the position for the next 14 years to match the 14 years without a QB in DC and I want a plan to get the next franchise guy around the 12 year mark. You want stability at the most important position on the field. Change every 5 years is not stability. 28 year old Weeden really? STOP SETTLING PEOPLE!!!

I hope the Skins just trade up for Griffin.

Get it over with. Shut us all up.

Then when he gets all nasty on the Cowboys people won’t whine about missing an extra first rounder.

I agree

I don’t understand anyone thinking that Brandon Weeden is anything more than a short term solution for a team that already has most of the pieces in place to compete. I am not to sure that he ever even becomes a starter in the NFL. What a lot of people don’t realize is that players need to drastically improve from college to the pros & players who are 28 have already reached their max physically (Chris Weinke). Why draft a player that is on the downside of his physical attributes before he even takes a snap & if he does mature into an NFL QB how long can he lead a team before age & injuries end his career ??

not comparable to Weinke

the only thing that is comparable between Weinke and Weeden is their age. You are correct on that.
But Weeden does not have 5 extra years of wear on his body. He was a baseball player.
Yes, he is older, and yes, he probably wont have a 12 year career in the NFL.. How many guys do ?
On the other hand, he has maturity and work ethic and wont likely be wasting time partying.
Of all the QB’s i have seen this year, he looks to be the most “pro ready” aside from Luck… and he went toe to toe with Luck and performed as well
I would love for RGIII to be available. I would also agree with trading up for him, to a point.
But, he might be a great college player and exciting to watch, but he is no more a “sure thing” than Weeden is. They are ALL a risk now, and we need more than just a qb.

My comparison to Weinke & Weeden is in their physical maturity

IMHO a player needs to be able to continue to improve to be able to make the jump from college to the NFL & players who are 28 at the beginning of their pro career have a good chance of already having hit their ceiling in terms of development. Joey Harrington is a good example of a player who was highly regarded in college but was never able to progress to the NFL level.

Uh, Weinke was a baseball player, too.

Where did you think he went instead of FSU right out of high school? Weinke won a Heisman and a National Championship (damn near two of them) and was a third-string QB who only played in emergencies at Carolina. Don’t expect more from Weeden, who isn’t as good a QB as Weinke was coming into the pros.

Nice work on this. It’s obvious you put a ton of time and research into this well thought out post.

As to Tannehill, he reminds me of Jason Campbell – in that when I watch him he’s typically solid, but rarely spectacular. I’d definitely rather see the team end up with Robert Griffin III, but in the event that they can’t put together enough to move up, I guess he’d do.

Thanks Brian.

My personal preference would be Robert Griffin III as well assuming it doesn’t cost too much. But I think we need to (and obviously will do, especially coaching the senior bowl) look at all the options. I think he’s a good plan B.

what is too much?

Would you be willing to trade what Atlanta traded for Vick?

Remind me exactly how much they gave up for Vick?

Different time...
The Falcons got the opening pick in exchange for the fifth overall pick in the first round, their third-round pick, their second-round pick in 2002 and wide receiver Tim Dwight.

Chargers drafted LT with their pick, this trade would never happen nowadays

Oh wow, yeah...

In answer to David’s question, yes I’d give up that for Griffin III.

Parks is right though, that would be highly unlikely to happen in today’s NFL.

damn inflation
Was 2001 Draft see below

heck of a deal for the Chargers. In 2001, Atlanta took Vick 1st, and then the Chargers drafted Tomlinson 5th and a QB named Drew Brees with their 1st pick of the 2nd round!

Why not?

Is your point that the lower rookie salary scale makes the early picks more valuable?

Or are you saying that NFL teams are now valuing Franchise QBs higher due to the new rules.

Or are you saying that teams figure there is always a sucker out there?

In any case, still looking for the answer to the question, what is too much to get a potential franchise QB. How much is Cam Newton worth to Carolina these days, on the field and off?

Just looking for everyone’s bottom line…

Combination of all of those.

But I think I see what you’re saying. At the end of the day, if RG3 turns out to be a true franchise QB, nobody will care about the picks given up in 2/3 years time. But it comes down to if Shanahan thinks that RG3 puts us over the top and into at least playoff contention next year. If he does, then go and get him. If he think this team is still more than a QB a a few FA’s away, then he will sit tight or trade back and collect more picks.

also the fact that Vick had a lot of question marks surrounding him, so his value wasn't as high
for some reason I heard Stewies voice here
got one better

its crazy but how about trading for schaub with yates being there they might wanna keep the younger guy and you know lil shanny would welcome that and then nab tanneyhill in the second round hey its just a wild thought on my part.

If you were Houston would you trade Schaub?

NO!

Would you give up?

2012 1st, 2nd and 2013 1st and 4th for RGIII to the Rams?

What I would give up now,

and what I would give up in April are likely to be vastly different amounts.

That's low.

Very low. Try 1st, 2nd, 3rd in 2012 and 2013.

similar to the Eli Manning deal

that is about what the Giants gave up forthe rights to Eli Manning the 1st overall pick. they gave up the right to Phillip Rivers 4th overall pick and 3rd pick 2004 and the following year 2005 1st and 5th round pick.

Then he will go somewhere in between bec he is not Eli Manning coming out of college

Everyone knew what they were getting with him. RG3 has legit questions about him such as why did the back up QB post similar numbers and play just as well as he did if he is so special?

ala Matt Flynn?

hahaha

How do you feel about trading the #6 pick for Calvin Johnson

And before you laugh, they are in a pickle with resigning him under the cap.

and we can afford a $22mm payment for the best WR in football

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/51954/digging-deeper-into-calvin-johnsons-future

Maybe if he didn't have an achilles injury

a la Landry… He’s still playing at a high level, but there’s a risk of blowing it out or playing scared or it causing other injuries. I blew out my achilles last year and have definitely lost a step. Granted, I’m not a professional athlete, but what I’m thinking is that any loss in performance is a bigger deal at the professional level.

I think we will get Tannenhill.

He’s got the size, mobility, and accuracy throwing on the run. I don’t think Griffin is in our plans for trading up. Whomever trys to trade in front of us will have to give up a lot considering the ATL trade last year.. I just don’t see Bruce and Mike participating in that. It is very possible he will be there at 6, and if he is I think we have to take him but if not then we need to trade back a few picks and get Tannenhill… I’m just nervous about losing out on both guys, Seattle seems to be the team to make a trade to jump us for one of these guys.

But I like this kid Tannenhill, he’s got the size, mobility, and accuracy throwing on the run.

AND

He has played the WR position so he understands and has a better grasp of the art of passing.

SEA said they are sticking with Jackson one more year. Carroll seems to wants to give him a full shot. And he finished out the season well.
For the most part, yes. (Seahawks fan here)

We would love to be able to trade up and get RGIII, but unless he suffers a mini-slip (and that would involve scenarios like Flynn to Cleveland and Snyder pulling an old-school Chainsaw Dan and signing Peyton) I doubt we have the resources to go get him. TJax is still our bridge to the QBOTF whether we get him this year or next.

Re: Tannehill – if you want to drop back to 10 or so to get Tannehill+stuff, you’re more than welcome to him. I’m not a fan of his for where he seems to be getting mocked (in the teens, first round). Very Ponder-like to me in that his draft position is inflated due to team needs and QB scarcity.

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