The race to be the third quarterback has officially begun. The draft process has started and the general belief is thatAndrew Luck will be taken by the Indianapolis Colts number one overall and Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III will follow shortly after. Many Redskins fans believe we should trade up for Griffin III, while others think we should trade back and get one of the next group of guys. But who comes behind those two, is anyone's guess. Ryan Tannehill was thought as the next best quarterback, but he broke his foot which will set him back in the evaluation process. Brandon Weeden had a great season for Oklahoma State, but he will be 29 half way into his rookie season. Many other names are going to be throw into the equation, but as it stands right now, nobody is a clear leader. Nick Foles might well be one of those names that could jump up above the rest of the pack and in behind Luck and Griffin III. But what is it that's holding Foles back? I believe his biggest weakness is his footwork. He consistently struggles to step into his throws under pressure and when he has time in the pocket, he plants his foot to his left rather than in front of him. Let's have a look at the tape.
I'll start with the under pressure throws. When his pocket starts to close in on him, he plants his front foot and rocks off his back foot to throw instead of stepping into the throw.
Here the pocket has started to push back on him. I've circled his front foot. He plants it here just before he winds up to throw.
Notice how his front foot remains planted, but he takes a half step back with his right foot to help build up power into his throw.
As Foles goes to throw, you can see his front foot is still in pretty much the same spot it was before. He hasn't stepped forward into the throw to help him transfer his weight and get torque behind his throw.
After the ball is released, his foot is still planted in the same position. He completely fails to step into his throw, but rather, he almost leans into it. It's closer to a back-foot throw, and will suffer similar results, mainly having little velocity behind the throw.
When a team can get consistent pressure, it can mess with Foles' footwork. When he gets into the rhythm of leaning into throws instead of stepping into them because of a pass-rush, it begins to become natural to him even when he has a clean pocket.
Here we are later in the game. Foles has a clean pocket to throw from, but because he's been previously under pressure, his muscle memory makes him fall into bad habits. He plants his foot before he winds up.
Foles again leans into the throw, which again means he can't properly transfer his weight to his front foot and put as much velocity behind the throw. He ends up under throwing his receiver and nearly gets intercepted by a trailing cornerback.
The other thing I've noticed with Foles is that he will occasionally fall into a trend of opening his body too much. This happens when he plants his front foot more to his left than in front of him.
His feet are fine here as he targets his receiver running a slant to his left.
Notice how wide he steps. He's almost front on to his receiver because of how wide that step is. This means he can't open his hips much more than they are already, limiting his ability to generate power into his throw.
Which is evident here, as the receiver has to dive back towards the ball to try and catch it. In the end, the ball is ruled incomplete.
These are huge issues that Foles will need to work on and improve throughout the draft process if he hopes to be the third quarterback taken. Do you guys believe he can overcome this issues? Should he be the third quarterback taken? Should he be a first rounder? Should the Redskins take him? Let me know in the comments.
0 recs | 99 comments
I'm sorry... I just read this three times and I don't see the issue.
I’m going to watch the “tape” and maybe it will be more evident then the still shots. But the examples of “bad” footwork seem to stem from when the pocket is collapsing. I get how bad habits when pressure is evident can translate to times when it is not, but I think we need to look at the product of the throws, what’s happening downfield, etc.
TBD, haha
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
He doesn't step into his throws
on a consistent basis. In the first two throws he plants his foot way before he even starts to throw the ball and doesn’t use it properly to build torque. All his power is coming from his shoulder.
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
So you're saying his footwork is the issue and he could theoretically throw it further if corrected?
Perhaps we can rebuild him, make him stronger.
Shanananananananaaaaaa…
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Haha, that is the thing.
If you can retrain his feet, then his arm strength will be very very good.
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
Are those cell phones taped to his jacket?
That’s some high tech shit right there.
willster - February 4, 2012
No.
Don’t even think they had the concept of a cell phone when this show came out…I used to watch it. Kinda looks like cigg packs.
mkjo - February 4, 2012
I disagree man. I just watched his whole AZ State tape again and I see some special instances.
Then I watched Cousins vs. UGA to compare. I’m not sure if you’re expecting him to crow hop or something?
He can be flat footed from time to time and does throw off his backfoot on the bootleg at times. But I watched these plays about ten times each and I don’t see anything mechanically wrong with his feet given the particular situations. Especially the first one, how is supposed to step up there?
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one Parks.
I’ve seen some throws of his where his footwork is fine, but I don’t like it overall and think it needs a lot of work.
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
But I don't understand...
How is a quarterback supposed to step up while his pocket is collapsing? In the example above, if would move up any closer he’d be arms length from his O-line.
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
longer drop?
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Drops are usually predetermined, you don't know when your pocket is going to collapse.
You have an educated guess on when more pressure is coming though.
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
I agree, but theoretically, he could change the call at the line depending on look the defense is giving him
Though, we usually don’t employ ‘kill’ plays…
mbedner - February 2, 2012
We run "kill" plays.
Rex throws it in the air…it kills us.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
hahaha, can't argue that one
mbedner - February 2, 2012
I don't know why....this made me laugh a bit harder than hearing about your pops blowing ass on some housekeeper
irishgoon - February 2, 2012
Yea but that's a totally seperate conversation from footwork.
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
It's in reference about giving him the ability to plant his foot within a collapsing pocket
We give him longer drops and further separation from the line.
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Unfortunately longer drops
result in longer routes. The only reason you take a 7 step drop is to get the timing with a receiver running a deeper route and it takes longer to develop. So the pass rush would likely get there before he has a receiver gets open anyway.
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
The drop back is predetermined.
Each play he’ll know how far he’s dropping back, if he drops back more, it screws up timing with receivers.
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
I get what you're saying on under pressure throws,
in the NFL, you can’t always fully step into throws, but from my point of view, he lets the pass rush play on his mind and it affects the way he steps up (or doesn’t step up in this case) when he has a clean pocket.
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
So his initial footwork under pressure is not the issue then?
You’re issue is his footwork from pressure translating into the “regular” passing game?
Like I said, there are so many variables that play into how a QB is moving in the pocket, but the timeline just doesn’t make sense.
The example under pressure is late in the 2nd quarter from the 20, 1 TO, 3rd down. Not your typical situation
The second example is from late in 3rd (probably 45 minutes later) on a “deep” route. It may not have been his 1st choice, perhaps it was a last second attempt, and so on.
The third example is from early in the 2nd.
You’d have to look at more games to see if there was “mental trend” in all of this. If the plays happen within a similar time-frame in chronological order then I’d agree with you. I think these are just three very different situations and given a whole game you could point something out like this on every prospect. If we look at the big picture for Foles these seem to be very isolated incidents, in my opinion.
I do think he needs to improve his footwork and I think its mainly a product of his size and strength letting him get away with some things at the collegiate level. That’s why LaFleur was up his butt last week. But I just disagree that its a mental layover type of thing, there just isn’t any evidence.
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
Thing is,
so many of his throws are catch and throw, or 1 step from center and throw into the flat. So you can’t really judge much on his footwork from those throws.
From the AZ State game, a high percentage of the throws that aren’t into the flat or check-downs to the RB, I think he fails to set his feet properly or gets happy feet when his internal clock goes off. So my concern is how he will translate to having a much higher percentage of the throws when he has to drop back, sit in the pocket, set his feet and throw. Now I’m not saying he can’t. As you say, he can set his feet properly. But from what I see of the film, what I interpreted of it, it set alarm bells off in my head. It could be fixed by good coaching, or it could become more obvious in the NFL. What will happen? Nobody knows, but that’s just my view.
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
i'm not sure if watching one QB against a horrible defense and another against an elite defense is a fair comparison
at Senior Bowl week, you did have the Redskins coaches working with Foles on his footwork a couple of times (note they worked on it with everyone, but Foles seemed to get a bit more attention). I think it is a bit of an issue, but correctable. Same with holding on to the ball too long.
Steve Shoup - February 2, 2012
I'm much more concerned with whether the QB makes good decisions with the ball
it seems like that instinct is more likely to stay with a guy
CarverM - February 2, 2012
oh i agree there
Steve Shoup - February 2, 2012
Good Stuff
Everyone is going to have an opinion. I think that if you’re drafting a QB in the 1st round, you’re not looking at a project. You’re looking at someone you can play today that only needs a little fine tuning. I’m not sure he’s the guy but one thing I have been told is that he does have tremendous upside if he get’s in the right system and can be developed by a guy who knows how to groom QBs. That’s where the whole FA QB route and draft a young QB later argument comes into play. It all depends on what is the “SHANNAPLAN.”
frankcal20 - February 2, 2012
You think we could get a write up on on some of the cornerback prospects coming out this year?
That marathon QB thread from this morning should be enough about throwers for a good LONG time haha
Rekka - February 2, 2012
The only problem with CB's
is coverage can be the most annoying thing to write about, because you never really know exactly what the coverage was unless its purely man coverage.
But is there anyone in particular you are thinking of and maybe I can take a look?
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
Maybe some of the guys going in the 2-3 rounds
like Trufant, Minnifield and Hayward (sp?)
Rekka - February 2, 2012
I'd like to see a lot more defensive profiles in general.
Some mid-round inside linebackers would be awesome also. Tank Carder!
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
Mocking the Draft
had a cool one about an inside LB out of Merrimack College (yeah, I’d never heard of it either….D2) the other day.
CarverM - February 2, 2012
It was originally you, Shoup and Tiller doing Draft profiles Parks.
Get on it man!
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
I could keep with the overall presentation and do one on Tank Carder if you guys could use a hand.
Copious 1 - February 2, 2012
Nothing like what you do UK.
Copious 1 - February 2, 2012
I actually have one in the "works" was waiting for a guy to get me Baylor-TCU Week 1 tape
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
Now by 'tape', you mean you guys were going to watch a game he recorded on his DVR 5 months ago?
mbedner - February 2, 2012
No, Ken finally ponied up and bought us all projectors from 1973.
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
But he didn't buy me and adapter
for mine, stupid American sockets…
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
what she said
just push it in
TCO - February 2, 2012
Or Lavonte David, he would be a good one as well.
Copious 1 - February 2, 2012
We need to find this year's Vanilla Gorilla
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
Still 3 months to go. Don't want to...
We’re out of games to preview, we’ve educated the masses, mission accomplished.
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
And I did a Long Ding profile today, don't get greedy.
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
What's the general consensus on Russell Wilson (aside from height)?
I know Mayock likes him and people trust Mayock.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
I haven't seen anything of him bar the Senior Bowl coverage.
And from what I saw there, all they did was bootleg him out of the pocket and gave him clear vision. To his credit, he was very good on the run, but its still to be determined how he does in the pocket. To his credit, he has the quick, over the top release that a short QB needs to have any chance of succeeding in the NFL.
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
yeah he can be the 3rd QB taken, just not by the Redskins
I honestly would not take any of the 2nd tier QB’s before the 4th rd and so that means i would not be going with Foles, Tannehill, Weeden. I would rather take a flier on a guy like Cousins or BJ Coleman i like his size and could get him in the 5th or later
Highspeed30 - February 2, 2012
wait you wouldn't take Tannehill before the 4th round?? that is insane
Steve Shoup - February 2, 2012
Wait till the fourth round for Tannehill -
You just won’t get him. What is so important in the second or third rounds that you have to pass up a promising QB? Rules like that just don’t make sense. You almost always have to pay the going rate for talent. Try hiring Avril Lavigne to sing at your wedding for $1000.
Donnio1234 - February 2, 2012
What an example
CarverM - February 3, 2012
Yeah I might let her sing at my wedding if she paid ME $1000
willster - February 4, 2012
I have to agree with Parks on this one.
I have to say that his footwork isn’t as shoddy as it seems, the problem is when he’s under pressure. I think Mike and Kyle can develop this kid into a very good Quarterback given a season. He just needs to retrain his muscles to the point where he won’t regress to his old habits, the way his mechanics are right now that shouldn’t be a big worry.
TerpsAllTheWay - February 2, 2012
Pretty much every coach, scout, etc that brings up a QB prospect always says "He needs to improve his footwork"
I just think these guys can get away with a lot more in college. But its sink or swim once preseason hits.
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
Agree with you UK
I’ve watched some video of him and read about 15 different scouting reports on him. They all say he has terrible feet. If that can be cleaned up, then the guy could be a great pick IF the skins miss out or pass on RGIII. I was dead set against Foles at one point, but after seeing that footwork is the main issue, I have softened my stance about 50%.
Copious 1 - February 2, 2012
More important question: How long is that "DELOCATED" ad going to be up?
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
That is getting me really irritated right now
I have the intense urge to skin a bear and straddle it suggestively in a show of my anger… while partially nude, of course.
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Whoever markets that show and runs the PR needs a talking to.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
Why? You're talking about it? And there have been several questions, comments, etc.
I had no idea what Delocated was a couple of days ago, now I know its a TV show at the very least.
Seems like mission accomplished for the PR team to me.
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
Not really, they are actually incredibly smart for advertising it here.
The show is designed for 18-30 year olds with a twisted sense of humor. I would assume this is their perfect demographic…
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Sounds like a description of iH8
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
I don't have cable so unfortunately I can't watch it.
Besides, at night I’m busy writing my book.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
You may have just opened yourself up to a world of hurt by disclosing that one...
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Why?
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
First, what is your book about?
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Boners, farts, Xanax, jail, sex, drugs and my family.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
If only you had cable TV, you'd be the perfect demographic for 'Delocated'
mbedner - February 2, 2012
The advertisement interests me, but what if a co-worker walks by and that's all they see?
Like this one dude I caught looking at Craigslist personal ads.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
That is worrying me too hahaha
mbedner - February 2, 2012
How long does it take to write a coloring book?
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
HAHAHAHAHA
mbedner - February 2, 2012
I actually saw a pretty cool coloring book the other day.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
Is that what gave you the inspiration?
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Not really. It's been hard finding a reporting job, and I love to write.
I’ll do horror shorts sometimes, but I find non-fiction is more interesting.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
So your book is, in fact, about your family, drugs, sex, rock and roll, etc?
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Yes. Every person has a story.
I thought I would be exposing political corruption or covering the Arab Spring by now, but I’ll settle to write about my many f-ups and adventures. It’s cathartic.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
Why don't you do your own news blog? Something akin to Huffington post or Drudge report?
mbedner - February 2, 2012
I'd love to, but I'd have to resort to a diet of tree bark and river water.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
On the side, of course
You can’t do that as a full-time job unless you have a really big following.
mbedner - February 2, 2012 via mobile
I'd like to do some investigative stories.
They just take so much time. But it’s a rush to publish one.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012 via mobile
Well if my calender serves me correctly... the ads say Thursday/Tonight and tomorrow is Friday
So my money would be on tomorrrow
Parks Smith - February 2, 2012
You should be thankful, H8
When this ad comes tomorrow, as I understand it, SB nation plans to put up some playgirl ads in their place…
mbedner - February 2, 2012
I can only hope.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
It still beats the George Costanza underwear pose.
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Best ever.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
Slightly off topic: Does Foles look like a young Tom Petty to anyone else?
mbedner - February 2, 2012
Little bit
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
He looks alot like Jason Campbell in your still frames
and it scares me a bit.
CarverM - February 2, 2012
Wow! He really does, doesn't he?
mbedner - February 2, 2012
I always thought it would be funny to do a UK style post.
Except the pics would be my face as Rex throws an interception.
iH8dallas - February 2, 2012
fer my twitter bud
1. Wilson has an awesome play action. Complete opposite of what you complained about with Beck. Almost like playing the keeper option. That plus his ability to run (even as a threat) is interesting…
2. On footwork, can you speculate why it’s not fixed already and how fixable this sort of thing is?
TCO - February 2, 2012
On Footwork.
It’s fixable, just takes a lot of reps to build up muscle memory and to not put him in a game until he’s built up the muscle memory enough to know he wont slip up if he’s put under pressure.
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
We should hire Zorn to bring his hula hoops and swiss balls back to coach up our rook
CarverM - February 2, 2012
hey guys i just wanted to put it out there that peyton has been cleared for full contact and may resume his career fully
Any reaction to this? I still don’t want him but atleast we know if he is here he will be healthy
no more kwame's in dc - February 2, 2012 via mobile
sorry i dont know how to copy the link from score center app
no more kwame's in dc - February 2, 2012 via mobile
Check the front page,
Got a story on it there.
UkRedskin - February 2, 2012
thanks
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/02/02/peyton-manning-cleared-by-doctors-to-resume-nfl-career/
no more kwame's in dc - February 2, 2012 via mobile
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/02/report-peyton-manning-cleared-to-resume-career/
Copious 1 - February 2, 2012
read that too and
although i would disagree with signing another veteran qb to be made of a joke in dc the chance at peyton is very appealing. the skins are under the cap and perhaps we could trade back our first into the teens draft an o lineman and than take a shot at the second tier guys like Foles in the second round and let him develop a year or two behind peyton. we could also draft a wr and let manning make him look good..have pity on me i live 10 minutes away from metlife and have to deal with all my friends praising the g men..
thatdudepete - February 2, 2012
not a big deal
lots of college QBs need work on their mechanics. If we don’t draft RG III then let’s draft Foles!
aFan4Life - February 3, 2012
Foles was
35 / 51 370 YDS 2 TDs in the game you posted the still frames … they won…
terpsez11 - February 16, 2012
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