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Will Mike Shanahan be able to make a deal with long-time friend Jeff Fisher?
There has been a lot of discussion regarding the Redskins and Robert Griffin III. A lot of people think the Redskins want to get Griffin, but just aren't sure how the Redskins will get Griffin. Depending on how free agency shakes out the Redskins likely only route to obtaining the Heisman trophy winner is a trade with the St. Louis Rams for the second overall pick. Lately there have even been rumors of the Daniel Snyder outright buying the pick from St. Louis for some much needed money to renovate the Edwards Jones Dome and keep the team in St. Louis. The legality of such a move has been questioned.
The likely proposed bounty for Griffin at this point is a 2012 first and second round pick, plus a first rounder in 2013. NFL Network insider Michael Lombardi recently went on Bill Simmon's BS report and noted a trade for the second overall pick is becoming increasingly likely:
"Mike Shanahan and Jeff Fisher are very close, If there's trade to be made, it'll happen between those two."
Also, KC Joyner had an interesting take on how RG3's skillset would greatly benefit the Redskins:
"To get an idea of just how aggressive Mike Shanahan likes to be in the passing game, consider that Rex Grossman was able to rank 12th in the league in vertical pass attempts (171) despite starting only 13 games last year. If Shanahan let Grossman, a noted risk-taker, throw deep that often, one can only imagine how often he would let Griffin do so."
0 recs | 467 comments
If that's all it would cost
Holy cow, without a second thought.
timith - February 9, 2012
"that's all?"
Would you trade Kerrigan, Trent Williams, and Jarvis Jenkins to the Rams for RG3?
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
We're not trading Kerrigan, Trent Williams and Jarvis Jenkins.
I think of it as trading Laron Landry, Carlos Rogers and Malcolm Kelly.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
O so Vinny Cerrato is still our general manager now and he's the one that would be picking for us this year?
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
Slap, slap, slapping you.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
You have to be objective. Our FO personnel is a lot better now then when those guys were drafted.
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
Yes, they are much better.
So when they trade those picks for RG3 I’ll trust the player is worth it. I also trust them to find talent in the middle and late rounds now as well.
So, I’d do that deal in a second.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
no-brainer that Shanny would jump on
but i bet it will cost more
DCrez - February 9, 2012
Pretty sure the Giants don't regret trading 2 1st's & a 3rd for Elisha Manning.
If RG3 is your guy then you go get him..If we’re in HH bizarro world and Luck is your guy then you trade up to #4 and grab Luck.
Diesel44 - February 9, 2012
I still think the asking price has to be slightly higher
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
You can not just assume that the price will be higher
because Free agency will impact the value of the trade up, if 2 teams fill their QB needs with Flynn and Manning then all of these crazy Ricky Williams type of trades wont happen.
So as of right now you have to assume it will be closer to normal trade value than a bidders war type of trade scenario
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
free agency can also drive the price up
there will be more teams in need of a QB than those that can solve it in FA. So if at the end of the dance two or three teams are left standing, the Rams raise the price so high waiting for some team to get desperate.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
We already know what teams are in the market for a QB
Washington, Miami, Cleveland, to a lesser degree Seattle, Arizona.
So if 2 of the top teams needing a QB get on in FA then the demand goes down. If Cleveland and Miami get Flynn and Manning then the price to get RGIII just went down u might be able to just outright draft him at 6.
or If Washinton and Miami get Manning and Flynn then the Browns will not have to pay to move up or will be able to pay a lower price.
I dont see seattle as a real threat to trade up i think they stick with Jackson and Arizona still have Kevin Kolb which he may be available and that will drive the price down.
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
don't agree with seattle being lesser degree
jbh1190 - February 9, 2012
what about the Jets and Chiefs?
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
what about them??
Dont go creating more teams that “may” want a QB. they both have QB’s already i doubt the Jets look to make a move cause they just made one to get Sanchez and Pioli is not the trade up type of GM he is from that New England school of drafting
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
Seattle really needs a qb.
Howard11 - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
Yeah, Seattle is hurting bro
Tiller56 - February 9, 2012
sorry, meant this as a response to Howard
Tiller56 - February 9, 2012
I think you HAVE to assume the price is going to be higher.
There will be more than one team going after RG3, and thus negotiating with STL. The market that will be created will drive up the price….so I think you HAVE to assume the price will be higher than these low estimates.
And if you think Fischer is just going to give Shanny some good ‘ol boy deal, keep dreaming. He’s trying to surround his young QB with weapons and win games, not trying to do favors for friends.
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
Well
Two firsts and a second can get you some damn good weapons that will win games.
The Agent C 83 - February 9, 2012
O so you can assume something but I can't have an opinion. Makes perfect sense.
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
LOL
Good ole Parks cynacism…always right on time when the day is dragging along.
Thanks for the laugh!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Everybody is entitled to a opinion
but the facts are you can not accurately predict what it will cost before Free Agency. But you can look at past trades and deals to get a feel for what the trade might actually look like. cause all this it will take 3 1st rd picks is out of line.
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
Exactly. The Giants lost a lot of players this year. Won it all.
Same with the Packers last year. But they didn’t lose their QB.
You can get by after losing your star RB, LB or whatever.
Lose your star QB and you’re screwed.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
Amen and amen
jmpalomo - February 9, 2012
Houston looked pretty good this year
even after losing their QB, backup QB, NFL Top five RB and NFL top three receiver. Why? Depth. What do we lack most? Depth. What do you get in the draft? Depth.
tuckwell - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
and what did the Top 5 RB and Top 3 WRs get them...
a playoff lose…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
with a 3rd string 5th round rookie qb.
Could we do that?
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
i don't think any is arguing that they are stronger with Schaub
just that depth and overall talent matter the most
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
understood....
but it was Schaub leading them to the playoffs, and when they lost him (and his backup), all that depth provided nothing.
Would I love to have some of their talent, absolutely. But I also want a MUCH better QB this year, not next year or two/three years from now…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
look at the teams they played at the end of the season
hardly a tough schedule
prc805 - February 9, 2012
they was like 8-3 when they lost Schaub
but it did not help them out in the playoffs against B-more, if shaub was healthy they would have won but since they had Yates not play at high level they lost
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
Trade up to #4 and grab Luck?
Why do you think Luck will be available at #4? Just asking – first I’ve read of that scenario.
Donnio1234 - February 9, 2012
it was on the HH mock draft 2.0 yesterday
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
The Hogs Haven mock draft has Luck going to Cleveland at four.
Yeah, I know.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
Donnio- I was mocking the HH mock draft.
Luck is going #1. It’s completely F’in insane to post a mock with him going #4. It’s Bleacher Report-esque.
Diesel44 - February 9, 2012
Ken Meringolo
travisjh86 - February 9, 2012
'Nuff Said
HogHunter - February 9, 2012
what you dont know wont hurt you
there is no way to know who we will miss out on. but if we have a chance at a franchise qb its something that is worth the risk
munson21502 - February 9, 2012
it's actually even more likely that we are giving up more value than Kerrigan, TW and Jenkins
we know that it would be the 6th and 39th pick, and this is a stronger draft class than either of the last two years. Next year’s pick is an unknown but my guess is it is higher than 16 where we got kerrigan.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
But...
These athletes are busts all the time…there is no promise that those picks will produce a stud!!
We can’t build a franchise on what-ifs…if it is believed that RGIII is the man for the next 10+ years…then get him.
Wishing for a QB next year could see more disappointment…ie, the guy you want regresses, gets injured, or worst is not in your reach because of your draft position.
Live for today and let tomorrow take care of itself!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Terrible MO to have as a business
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
esp. a team that is devoid of a lot of depth and talent
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
+1
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
I disagree
If you live for today…you make today the best it can be…then tomorrow, you get up and you do it again.
But if you live for tomorrow all the time, when does today become awesome…
Furthermore…tomorrow is not promised, but you will always have today!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Well, in the real world, if you spend all your money today, you don't have any money to spend tomorrow
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
READING is fundamental...
Never said spend all your money today…I never said anything about money.
Please take my statements for what they are…don’t twist them to prove your point…you do that alot…its pretty freakin annoying.
I said, build a foundation…a QB that has great potential, and one whom the team and fans can believe in, is a great foundation.
Legacee - February 9, 2012
unless he doesn't work
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
Rex doesn't work
Honestly…what the hell do we have to lose!
People kill me acting like we are giving up something to take a chance on RGIII…even at his worst, the confidence that he will bring to the team and the fanbase will raise him above Rex!
Mystics fans have more guts than some folks here…its sick!!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
London wants Luck
he tweeted it not Griffin
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
well if we had just half the luck the giants did
we woulda been the superbowl champs instead of them this year
munson21502 - February 10, 2012
I READ and understand. I would love a great QB, but RG3 is NOT a guarantee and this team doesn't have the luxury of making an expensive mistake
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
NO, NO, NO, NO
Rookie QB is a guarantee! NONE…so what is your point?
Legacee - February 9, 2012
My point is this team is in no position with the lack of depth and talent to risk trading up on a QB that is anything short of a sure thing
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
Do people not realize
A good QB makes both the OL and WR look better than they really are?
prc805 - February 9, 2012
Of course it does. There's no guarantee RG3 will be that good QB who does that
In fact, looking at the history of the draft, the chances are MUCH greater that he will be mediocre or worse….and then our Line and WRs will look like what they are: Not Talented
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
so we're never going to pick a QB
b/c he’s not guaranteed to be elite?
prc805 - February 9, 2012
If it was up to some of these couch GMs, we would only use the wildcat.
No QBs ever.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
If we were in a position of strength, not weakness, it would make more sense to take a risk for RG3
But as it stands, we’ve had perhaps the best draft of the decade, 1 draft where we took at least 7 picks, and now everyone thinks we’re in a position to trade picks again.
How about we have 2-3 really good drafts in a row before we go back to trading away picks? Is that so crazy?
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
nope its logical
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
Good, because i feel like im taking crazy pills
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
haha
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
Until you get a real top quality QB
his team will be going into circles. Some of you act as if you have to have a perfect tteam in order to pull off this trade or you need to have all your holes filled and you dont. The Giants was far from a finished product when they got Eli 4-12 the year before with the 4th overall pick so dont go and say that the Giants was a better team than Redskins currently are, but they did not set their team back like some of you are suggesting
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
yes, it is insane
because it supposes we’ll stay shitty enough to be within striking distance of an elite qb despite having filled in all the other holes.
DCrez - February 9, 2012
Come on Man, loko at the elite QB's in the NFL. Very few of them were drafted at the top of the draft, its a fact
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
Where was this year's SB winning QB drafted?
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
1 year!
and last years was drafted at the end of the firs tround
And Big ben was drafted in the mdidle
And Brees in the 2nd
And BRady in the 6th
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
Brees was the 33rd pick.
So 3/5 were first rounders.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
And Eli is the only top 10 pick among them
Guess who hasnt sniffed a SB:
Matt Ryan
Alex Smith
Mark Sanchez
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
no one but Vinny wanted to trade up for any of them.
this is about a specific player, not the history of the draft
DCrez - February 9, 2012
So NFC and AFC Championship games don't count as 'sniffing?"
You should clarify.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
Alex Smith is hardly the reason San Fran won this year. They toko the ball out of his hands and let their RBs and DEF run the show
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
alex smith hasnt sniffed a SB?
he was one shitty punt returner away from one this year
itsstevenweinstein - February 9, 2012
so Drew Brees is Ryan Tannehill!
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
Brees was #32
pre-Texans
tckols - February 10, 2012
wait there is a Manning in the draft?
b/c in the last dozen years only Mannings win SB’s after being a top 10 pick.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
eh that's skewed
Brady had three and the mannings have three. Rothelisberger has 2. Rogers has 1. Brees has 1. And I can’t think of the other 2. Kurt Warner? So that’s 5 of 12 superbowls with 1st round draft picks at qb. 6 if you count Brees as a 1st
Howard11 - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
Aaron Rodgers was a top QB prospect the year he was drafted, he just took a free fall, but he very well could have been the 1st overall pick. Both he and Drew Brees was the 2nd QB off the board in their draft year so that does not mean that they was not a top level talent just not as much need for Qb’s the years they was drafted
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
passing on an elite qb talent is a losing strategy.
it’s the height of foolishness to see the guy you think is a stud but not draft him because you want some more TEs and RTs first.
DCrez - February 9, 2012
RG3 was elite in College, for 1 season
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
He was very good last season as well
in a program at Baylor that did not go to a bowl before he got there. But just cause most did not hear of him dont mean he was not very productive in College. He got better every season and have a extremely high ceiling
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
Oh, we aren't passing on him.
If he falls to six, I’m all for it.
tuckwell - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
what is this supposed area we need to be in for an elite QB?
Look around the league, where were Big Ben, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Schaub drafted?? What about Romo, Warner, Favre?
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
these people
want to wait 2 – 3 years. Then when we have a lower pick and we have to trade away MORE picks, they’re going to say “its not worth it.”
prc805 - February 9, 2012
False, if we were a better team with more young talent, it wouldnt be so risky to trade up for a QB
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
false, it would
because we would have to mortgage a shitload more picks to move up to draft a top rated QB
prc805 - February 9, 2012
its a catch 22
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
Howard- Catch 22?!?!
We don’t use that reference around these parts for obvious reasons.
Diesel44 - February 9, 2012
Which would be more palatable
because the team doesn’t have as many needs to fill, thus won’t miss the picks as badly.
tuckwell - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
Why
Is it not considered mortgaging the future in your scenario…you are doing the same thing…no having future picks to put around your “Franchise” QB…what’s the difference?
Legacee - February 9, 2012
So
Who makes us stronger then?
Legacee - February 9, 2012
I know what would make us stronger, having picks in rounds 1-4 for the next few years
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
I see where you are going...
I just can’t follow you. That does not make us stronger
That is like saying a man with a lot of money is a good businessman…one does not directly correlate to the other.
Legacee - February 9, 2012
yes good veteran QB's do that
good rookies don’t
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
No, they don't realize or refuse to understand that specific point
Bryan Black - February 9, 2012 via Android app
OK...
But what if we get Blackmon and he turns out to be Devin Thomas?!
My point is that, whatever move we make we are taking a risk…but which one will pay greater dividends?
QB by far in my opinion…but I may be looking at this from the wrong angle…jmo
Legacee - February 9, 2012
ummmm...
Because if he turns out to be a bust we only lost 1 pick instead of 2 firsts and a second…
Duh?
C’mon guys. Of course this is all speculation, but you use what knowledge you have. First round picks are more valuable because all the information you have points to the guys you use them on being more valuable!
It is always risk vs. reward. I don’t think RGIII is worth it. Too short and not good enough competition.
HogNasty - February 9, 2012
He is 6'2" 220lbs??
Aaron Rodgers 6’2", Steve Young 6’2", Brett Farve 6’2", Tony Romo 6’2".
So i guess all of these guys was too short too??
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
Not really that tall
wait for the combine…
HogNasty - February 9, 2012
all you had to do is look at him stand next to Andrew Luck and see that he is 6’2, cause Luck is 6’4"
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
He's not 6'2 man, he's going to measure in at about 6'0
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
He look 6'2"
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/33791137
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
interesting still we will wait and see
Howard11 - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
Fox
He’s going to dazzle in workouts, he’s going to wow in interviews and, if he measures up as listed, there are going to be teams that rank Griffin over Luck. The size issue matters. I’ve spoken to some NFL folks who insist Griffin is closer to 5 feet 11, 205 pounds than 6-2, 220. We’ll see.
HogNasty - February 22, 2012
And who is to say...
That the talent will be here tomorrow…if you don’t do what you have to do today!
You do realize that you are both proving my point right?!!!
example…I’m planning for early retirement (my tomorrow statment)…but don’t I have to work hard to day to prepare for that?!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Furthermore...
You don’t plan for the future by building on ASSumptions and What-ifs…you plan for the future by suring up your current (Today) position and building upon that solid foundation.
Legacee - February 9, 2012
I don't know what kind of work you are in, but I hope it's not business
Every (successful) company in world ABSOLUTELY plans their future on assumptions, projections, what-ifs, and analysis of future conditions. To say you’re going to act without considering these things is foolish and an irresponsible way to run an organization.
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
Well, football, with the salary cap, free agency and the new CBA is not like any other business.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
Wouldnt you agree that best business practices would help you run a successful NFL franchise?
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
The point is to win, not turn the most profit.
If that was the case the Redskins and Cowboys would be up to their eyeballs in rings.
You have to get the best players on the field. RG3 is one of the best players out there.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
facial...
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
High five jgibbs
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
iH8, I wasnt talking about money, I was suggesting that, as in any other business, NFL franchises should use their resources wisely, and take the route toward Maximum reward and Minimun risk
But I’m glad you two had fun giving each other facials
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
lmao...
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
Max reward is a packed stadium with an electrifying qb leading a revitalized team.
the risk is relatively minimum compared to the reward.
DCrez - February 9, 2012
Okay, look at it this way.
The Redskins are GM circa 2008. A lot of dumb shit has us looking at banyruptcy.
We need a bailout. RG3 is that bailout.
Now GM is back on top.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
You're talking about dollars, I'm talking about spending your resources to build the best football team
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
getting the best qb is the biggest step to building the best football team
DCrez - February 9, 2012
This
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
GM sucks
Yeah, those Chevy Volts are selling like hotcakes…don’t ever, ever, have our franchise aspire to be like GM.
The Agent C 83 - February 10, 2012
And lets just say...
You plan and plan and plan for your future…but you never live to see it?
This is why you have to live for today!
You are planning for future Redskin acquisitions…and what happens if by some strange twist of fate, they team is sold to LA and leaves DC for the 2014 season…then what has your planning got you?!?!?! NOW is all we have…tomorrow is never promised!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Are you on your death bed or something?
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
The Redskins are NOT moving to LA
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
And stop treating this franchise like a team thats been saving and saving their resources, too scared to spend
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
Not dying...very much so enjoying life
And no we haven’t been saving…but we haven’t been smart with resources either…we finally have wise decisions coming from the FO and we the fan base are at odds because of fear of failure…HELLO…we have been failing epicly for years!
Vinny’s failure is not of this regime…think RGIII trade could help the team turn the corner
Legacee - February 9, 2012
The practices of the past regime and the current (McNabb) have left us in a position where the risk of trading up far outweighs the benefit of doing so
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
Logical Fallacy
We didn’t trade up for McNabb…he has nothing to do with this conversation
Legacee - February 9, 2012
huh?
the McNabb trade def. affects our ability to trade up. It robbed us of two young potential talents, who could either make us closer to contending or be used as trade chips.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
We traded for him Legacee....a 2nd and a 4th round pick. It was a bad move by our CURRENT regime
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
My point
We did not trade for him during the draft…that was a “Win Now” ploy that was implemented to jump-start the team…it didn’t work.
And you keep saying we lost young talent…those picks were not guaranteed to be “WINNERS”. We have to stop making that connection…look at all the high picks that are garbage in the league…you cannot say without trading picks for McNabb we would be better.
Legacee - February 9, 2012
cant be winners if we dont draft them
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
I am not agreeing with your argument...
but you made me laugh out loud with that one…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
Mayans dude, they are never wrong
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
LOL
I was reaching to make a point…just want folks to live for the right now…stop being scared…its okay to take a chance every now and then
Legacee - February 9, 2012
in one second
You do mean the Jarvis Jenkins who has yet to play in an NFL game and is coming off major knee injury right? And the Trent Williams that was busted for drugs use 13x and is one puff away from a year suspension too right?
DCrez - February 9, 2012
Nice point
CptChaosSidekick - February 9, 2012 via mobile
Parks
Remember, now all 1st and 2nd rounders prove to be a value add. You can’t pick 3 valuable players and say that is equal to what we would give up…because for every Jarvis Jenkins, there is a Malcolm kelly or Devon Thomas…or Heath Shuler.
I get your point…but you can’t connect those dots in such a concrete manner.
Legacee - February 9, 2012
I'm not picking random players, I'm picking what that trade would look like under this amdin
I didn’t say that that talent level would equal this trade, its simply an question of “would you”
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
by the same token you can't assume RGIII will turn out to be even starter quality then given the track record of QB's
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
no comparison is fair...
we can’t use hind-sight to hypothetically throw out trade values. No one knew what Newton would be, Brady, etc. That is only after the facts.
IF RG3 became great, then many would say we should do it. Unfortunately, we cannot fortell the future…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
Agreed
And Parks, I got your point…just playing devil’s advocate…as that is how your point could be taken.
Most here are some what logical…but others are so off base its crazy. At some point, you have to just take a chance…because no matter who we pick…its still a risk because no draftee is promised to be uber successful in the league!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
No I completely agree with what you're saying
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
I think the postulated trade fits with the trade chart
Donnio1234 - February 9, 2012
now some sane reporting...
WE ARE MOVING UP TO #2, AND SELECTING…………………………………..
whichever QB Indy does not…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
boyyy howwwddyyyy
Would I Everrr
Al_CaPWNED - February 9, 2012 via mobile
I've been sticking to this prediction for a while now.
When I get it right I’ll change my handle to Dr.H8 Professor of predictions.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
I seriously believe next years 1st could be a top 5 pick. No chance I'd do that.
Maybe just a smokescreen but Lombardi said RG3 isn’t necessarily a fit for the Browns: “Cleveland wants to be an under-center team” w/Childress. Says Griffin needs shotgun.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
SMH
If I’m reading you cooment right you don’t want to trade our 1st next year bc we might have a top 5 pick the following year…#mindblown
CptChaosSidekick - February 9, 2012 via mobile
Yes
With or without RGIII. Unless you have delusions of grander and think RGIII will propel this team into the playoffs.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
so your saying by replacing grossman with RGIII will make us a worse team?
skinsfan28 - February 9, 2012
If you look at the big picture
Our schedule will be tough. AFC North compounded with playing the NFC South. Also, people are narrow minded in thinking a QB can compensate for the other deficiencies on this team.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
2up2down you put it very nicely here
jbh1190 - February 9, 2012
Can someone please tell me...
How people know how terrible our team will be, when we don’t even know the roster?!?!?!
Indy showed us this year what one player can do…and that swing can go either way. After we get our FAs (WR, OL, possibly CB)…how could we not keep going in the right direction…2nd year in the system for some of our quality players…why is it so hard to agree that this team could be competitive next season..
Hell, we have been depressed for years…lets start being positive and looking towards brighter days…
Legacee - February 9, 2012
+1,000,000
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
RGIII < Peyton Manning
HogNasty - February 9, 2012
You did see...
That PM can’t really throw the ball right now? right?
I don’t think anyone said he was better than any current NFL QB…but he has the potential to be ranked among them once he gets going…is that possibility that has many of us willing to take a chance…if not him do we stick with Beck and Rex…Beck is still under contract…maybe he’s ready now! LOL>>>>hahahahahahah
Legacee - February 9, 2012
I was just responding
To the quote, “Indy showed us what one player can do”
HogNasty - February 9, 2012
Half The freaking posters on this site have already put him in the hall of fame
davetrembling - February 9, 2012
Barring a career ending injury
He will be one day
ipitydafu - February 9, 2012
There is absolutely no way of knowing how tough the schedule will be.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
I see 6 wins if lucky, not trying to play Nostradamus.
Home games: New York Giants, Philadelphia, Dallas, Atlanta, Carolina, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Minnesota
Away games: New York Giants, Philadelphia, Dallas, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis
2up2down - February 9, 2012
I see at least 8 wins there...
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
really?
Tampa, St. Louis, and Cleveland are the only ones that stand out, and we don’t exactly have a great track record of ’taking care of business"
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
I think we'll get
4 divisional wins this year. I think we will take carolina, cinci, and minnesota at him. Cleveland away. And maybe a surprise upset. But then im always optimistic in the offseaso
ipitydafu - February 9, 2012
him = home -_-
ipitydafu - February 9, 2012
homehomerHogHunter - February 9, 2012
That’s still a low teens pick…and I don’t even see 8 wins.
2up2down - February 9, 2012 via mobile
Just looking at the teams
Doesn’t provide a good guess at how they’ll do next year.
I wonder how many teams saw San Fran as a win coming into this year?
Ohio Redskins - February 9, 2012
Not me
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
so let me make this clear...
to all you “No-Trade” group -
Your bring in as many rookies as we can, still does not get us more wins, since it appears to you that our schedule is immovable. Yes, you are preparing for the future (foundation, depth, all that). But that is precisely what I am saying in regards to selecting RG3, future, foundation…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
Your giving up the future, foundation for RGIII and praying he doesn’t bust or he’ll set the franchise back.
2up2down - February 9, 2012 via mobile
no, he is the future...
let’s stop talking about failure. We have already gone round and round with draft pick failures…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
Isn't that a chance that we're willing to make?
A chance to take our team to the next level.
Ohio Redskins - February 9, 2012
Yeah if only we had the cast for him to succeed.
2up2down - February 9, 2012 via mobile
We can build around Griffin
Much easier than finding a QB to fit in with what we have…. We’ll end up with Orton or Quinn this way.
Ohio Redskins - February 9, 2012
Build with what?
No draft picks? FA is good, but a good team does not live on FA alone. Or the draft alone. They must be used in concert to achieve success.
tuckwell - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
Our WRs/TEs stock with RG3 is higher than their stock with Rex, do you agree?
When the pocket collapses, we need a QB who can make plays. Having all of those picks doesn’t mean as much when we have a QB who can’t make things happen.
Ohio Redskins - February 9, 2012
+1000
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Their stock is also higher with:
26 other starters from last year, Flynn, Orton, Manning with half an arm, Weeden, Foles, or the ghost of Sammy Baugh.
tuckwell - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
the same picks the Giants used after they gave up "the farm " for Eli. The reality is that yeah to trade for RG3 it is gonna cost some draft picks but it is not a Ricky Williams deal giving a 2nd this year and a 1st and 3rd or 4th next year does NOT qualify as giving away ALL your picks
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
to be honest
I’d rather just give all this picks up rather than a 1st, 3rd and 4th next year
Redskin44 - February 9, 2012
it will be 2 picks next year a 1st and a 3rd or a 4th
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
I understand where you're coming from 2up2down
But I don’t want to look back 2 years from now, while RG3 is tearing up the NFL, and know that we had a chance to make a move for him but didn’t. There’s risk with everything.
I can say with full confidence that I think RG3 has #1 pick talent that will go later because of Luck.
If we bring in a solid QB, talent will come to DC wanting to play with him.
Ohio Redskins - February 9, 2012
What is up with all these assumptions?
RGIII is going to tear the league up? He’s our savior? I’m not even sold on RGIII as others and that seems to be the contentious point. Smart + athletic =/= success, sounds contradictory but ask Alex Smith.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
Dumb and unathletic = success?
I’m confused.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
how is Alex Smith unathletic??
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
You do know Alex Smith was a very smart guy 3.7 GPA or something and working on his masters, right? He wasconsidered athletic and still is.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
To be more specific
Alex Smith got his Bachelors in Economics in two years with a 3.74 GPA and was working on his Masters prior to the draft.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
but he has girl hands and cant throw a football very well.
DCrez - February 9, 2012
Tell that to the pundits that said he was a better prospect than Rodgers.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
the pundits are irrelevant
only Shanny’s thoughts matter
DCrez - February 9, 2012
And...
If he doesn’t like RGIII, are you going to call for his head?
2up2down - February 9, 2012
he loves RG3, ask Rodskins
DCrez - February 9, 2012
He also loves Luck, ask me
2up2down - February 9, 2012
All I was saying
Was that IF RG3 becomes a stud for another team, I don’t want to look back knowing that we could’ve had him.
Ohio Redskins - February 9, 2012
Understandably
I would only be willing to move picks for this year. Preferably our 1st + a roster player, but that seems highly unlikely.
People may have different opinions on it, but our 1st next year imo will be top 10 at least.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
Would love to...
use your draft bounty…but why do you feel we are going to still be terrible next year?
Is there nothing that give you hope of us winning more games and actually starting to be competitive?
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Transitioning to a younger roster
leads to growing pains. They’ll develop with experience but don’t expect too much too soon.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
True
But we at least expect not to have a top 10 pick again next year! LOL
Legacee - February 9, 2012
I expect a top 15 type of pick next year
but I am ok with not having a 1st next year cause i dont have to worry about the QB spot for a while hopefully the next 10-15 years. and by most accounts people think we would use a 1st on a Qb next year anyway even if they draft a 2nd tier guy like Tannehill,Foles, Weeden.
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
if the giants can win a superbowl anybody can
munson21502 - February 9, 2012
+1
LOL
Legacee - February 9, 2012
2 picks is the entirety of our future?
DCrez - February 9, 2012
Are you always this negative
How oftern have you heard “QUALITY” players say how much they would love to play on teams with certain people?
RGIII will not only help to improve the talent level on the team…but he will draw other FAs next season that like what is happening her in DC.
If you want to win, you have to grap the people that give you the best chance to do so.
Legacee - February 9, 2012
I see that kind of thing with Cam Newton.
His teamates seem to love playing with him. Who wants to play with Orton or Grossman?
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
name either of those guys starter and the rest of the team is like "oh well, maybe next year"
Orton is a fat drunk and Rex is just fat. The other players have no confidence in guys like that. Bring in a dynamic guy like RG3 and the WHOLE TEAM believes sky is now the limit. Especially with the success Cam and Dalton just had.
DCrez - February 9, 2012
YES
And that is the mentality that is being created here…and its time to take the next BIG step!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Tough schedule
but I can see – as a first guess – beating TB, Cleve, Stl, Minn, Car and Cin, and splitting the division, for 9 wins. I.e., split with all paired divisions and sweep the two extras (Stl and Minn). Car and Cin not unwinnable at home. There are a number of ways we could do better, or worse.
Donnio1234 - February 9, 2012
Won't be a better team.
We’ll have a better QB and a FA signing or two. The team as a whole won’t be significantly better.
tuckwell - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
There is no delusion about it. Poor QB play is what kept this team out of the playoffs.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
You really believe that? That's the only thing that kept us out of the playoffs?
Wow.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
Yes.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
Give us Peyton and we are in the Playoffs at the Minimum
jmpalomo - February 9, 2012
Are they expanding the playoffs to 32 teams?
Peyton Manning can’t even physically throw the ball to his left right now
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
+1 Parks
Ohio Redskins - February 9, 2012
Agreed
Would love him as a mentor to a quality rookie…but not sure he is really ready to play and be competitive
Legacee - February 9, 2012
In all fairness
Neither can Beck, who is currently the only QB on our team.
CJHutch - February 9, 2012
LOL
But Beck didn’t have a damaging neck injury…his inability is natural.
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Peyton with a bum neck is still immensely better than Beck
Bryan Black - February 9, 2012 via Android app
Did I hear Peyton?
http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/2/9/2786929/so-heres-the-thing-about-peyton-manning
Floppy P Key - February 9, 2012
wow...so the offensive line, RB, WR, TE play had nothing to do with it on offense
and the lack of a run defense or a compentant secondary had no impact? Our Special teams being among the worst in the league in returns or all the blocked FG’s didn’t affect us?
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
What happened to Chicago? They are well on their way to the playoffs and then UH-OH..
Their QB goes down. All of the sudden the whole team looks like garbage.
YES, it was QB play.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
So our supporting cast = Chicago's supporting cast?
Same w/ Houston?
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
All of a sudden all your receivers Suck gas
jmpalomo - February 9, 2012
huh?
since when did our receivers become world beaters
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
You do know why their QN went down, correct?
2up2down - February 9, 2012
QB*
2up2down - February 9, 2012
Ask any Chicago fan if they would trade offensive lines with Washington and I bet 100% would say hell yes.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
What about defense, running backs, and wide receivers?
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
Wide receivers is a push. Chicago has Forte, we have Helu, Royster and Hightower.
Our defense, when playing with a lead, is damn good.
Tight ends? Skins
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
Keep dreaming...
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
Really? What am I dreaming about or is that your way of saying, "Ok you're right, I got nothing?"
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
So if you asked a NFL fan, as a GM, would you rather have the Bears roster (minus Cutler)...
Or the Redskins roster, then most fans would choose the Redskins?
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
I don't like the bears roster
except for urlacher, be we have fletcher. I’ll take ours.
jbh1190 - February 9, 2012
Yes
Peppers is old. Urlacher is old. Hell, the entire defense is old.
The Redskins have much more young talent than the Bears.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
I would like for our defense to have the ability to catch the ball though
jbh1190 - February 9, 2012
they are younger than our best player Fletcher
and you know why the Redskins have more young talent? Bc the Bears traded away a pair of first rounders for Cutler
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
Aside from Fletcher, who plays like a 25 year old, who is the oldest defensive player?
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
what do Urlacher and Peppers play like? What does Lance Briggs play like?
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
Absolutely not...
they had great players on defense, who never got dethroned by players brought in. The those players got old. That is why their defense got old…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
what does this mean??
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
Steve, how foolish are you to tie that trade to old defense...
you know better. It’s not as if Chicago traded all their picks away for Cutler. Don’t make stupid statements like that, it discredits you…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
how does it discredit me??
you don’t think trading away a pair of first round picks (neither in the top 10) and a 3rd rounder has hurt their young talent level??
Please explain how that is stupid in any way shape or form?
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
how the Bears FO decided to use their draft picks...
was up to them. Could they have selected Defensive players, sure. But you are tying it exclusively to the Cutler trade. That is absolutely false, nor are you in any position to make a judgement such as that…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
what are you talking about?
1. why am i not in a position to make such a judgement but apparently you are?
2. Even if the Bears decided to use those picks on offense, it would have freed up other picks or free agent signings to potentially be on defense.
3. I never tied it exclusively to the Cutler trade. But I did make the point that the Bears are lacking young talent b/c of a major loss of premium draft picks.
I realize you don’t like history, facts or logic stand in the way of your ‘damn the torpedoes" approach for getting a QB, but they are all valid. So i’m not sure why you keep rejecting them.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
the Bears were 7-3 on a 5 game win streak when Cutler went down.
they would never undo the trade for Cutler if given the chance
DCrez - February 9, 2012
well that could be debateable but that really isn't the question here
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
oh, that' right, I forgot who I was talking to..
1. I am not judging anything. You are the one who brought the subject up (see the next point).
3.
YOU DID TIE IT TO THE CUTLER TRADE!! Those are your words. Don’t deny it.
Did the trade lower their level for Young talent? Yes. But that was not your original point. That is what I will take exception to.
And, If your “history, facts or logic” make absolute NO SENSE, then, yes, I will keep rejecting them…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
haha
1. how did i deny it?
2. What am I judging? I made a factual statement, which you said a couple posts ago was ‘absolutely false’ but now are amending that.
3. How was that not my original point since I said that they have less young talent b/c of that trade.
4. What about my history, facts, logic makes ‘no sense’?
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
my last response...
1. ??????
2. I am not amending anything. I stand by my stance the you are in no position to make a statement that the Bears defense is old due to the Cutler trade (the subject matter was the Bears defense, not their whole team).
4. It makes no sense, due to the fact that Cutler has demonstrated being one of the better QBs in the league. I thought the Bears paid WAY TOO MUCH for him then, but now, I’m pretty sure the FO is happy they made that trade. They have a very good QB (just under franchise-guy).
Thanks for the midday joust….
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
how am I in no position?
you haven’t made that clear. It is a completely fair assumption that the Bears could have used 1 of those 3 premium picks (if not more) on their defense.
So how does that make no sense?? I’m not arguing whether or not the Bears are happy with the trade or not. What i’m saying is their defense is older and window closing (because I’m assuming that is the point Ihate was making) because of that trade. The Bears are probably happy with their Top 15 QB, and that is fine. But you can look at the road not taken, and where they might be. Or simply say that the Bears were in a position to do so, b/c they were already more established.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
That's an interesting fact iH8
It’s odd thought that the Redskins starting defense average age was 28, but yet the Bears average defensive starters were also 28 years old.
You’ve already conceded that the Bears defense is better, but you wanted to take the younger defense… hmmm…
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
I'm pretty sure London Fletcher moves that average a bit.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
So exceptions are allowed for the Redskins but not the Bears?
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
exactly and when he's gone in 2 or 3 years max the Skins are hurting
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
And are you talking about day one defense or at the end of the season?
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
okay, so whats the point?
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
The point is, even with a half ass supporting cast, Jay Cutler was going to get the wildcard spot.
With CALEB HANIE in there, shit fell apart.
QB is more important than everyone else.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
Our Oline is marginally better than the worst Oline in the league.
2up2down - February 9, 2012 via mobile
While I don't all out agree with H8 here it certainly wasn't our Division opponents that kept us out
It also wasn’t our Defense. It was the offense and who on our offense was really more to blame than Rex and his 2 int a game average?
skinsfan28 - February 9, 2012
You don't think our division opponents will improve?
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
i'm not saying RGIII makes us a playoff contender
I’m just saying I think he’d solidify our most glaring position of need for the next ten years
again i say think, because anything can happen
skinsfan28 - February 9, 2012
But would it make more sense to shore up those other positions of need and then get your "franchise" guy?
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
Thats one way to go about it
But my personal opinion is that Griffen is going to be fantastic QB in the NFL.
So we should get him while we’re in reach, If we shore up the other positions then the cost to move up for a sure thing will increase. Maybe we get a guy in the second or third that can learn behind our stop gap but I think RGIII is worth the trade up.
Again just my opinion a valid point can be made about trading down and shoring up everything and adding a qb when the team is ready.
I was in that boat last year, but I think FA and our Draft last year did alot to help this team. I think our record will be increasing and the cost to move up for a top tier qb will increase with it over the next few years
skinsfan28 - February 9, 2012
no, it doesnt make more sense.
unless you think that after adding another 5-6 players this offseason, the skins will be worse than last year and end up with a top3 pick.
DCrez - February 9, 2012
maybe I can see
3 losses to AFC North
3 losses in NFC East
2 losses in NFC South
jbh1190 - February 9, 2012
8-8 is what, the 15th pick this year?
DCrez - February 9, 2012
those are just foreseeable losses
and guesses at best. no need to be a dick and say its foolproof. Your just mad because you said it’d cost a 1st and a 2nd this year. A very reasonable price for a QB, and everyone would take that but you.
jbh1190 - February 9, 2012
to be fair I almost wrote something snide too regarding guessing losses
but then i saw that you started with
skinsfan28 - February 9, 2012
not sure what you are talking about as i'm in the get RG3 camp
DCrez - February 9, 2012
reply fail to Park's fool proof reply below
skinsfan28 - February 9, 2012
yes
jbh1190 - February 9, 2012
This excercise is foolproof!
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
I disagree
Our good young guys age & go the way of FA while the rest of the team wallows in mediocrity as we continue to lose by a TD or less waiting for some average QB like Burnnell, McNabb, Grossman to get lucky.
Look I get your point. This team has holes & losing draft picks makes it harder to fill them. A decent QB & we win both games vs Dallas & the majority of the close ones we lost.
Football is obviously a team sport but an elite QB can turn franchises around. Brees, Mannings, Brady, etc have all done this. I’m NOT saying RG3 is the next one but there comes a point were the Washington Redskins have to invest in getting someone who’s got the God given ability to take the ball & go 80 yards in a 2:00 drill because that player isint in FA pool.
I’m against getting “bent over the table” to move up in the draft but I’m strongly against the side that fears making the trade simply because they’re not sure how it’ll turn out. What I think Skins fans should be asking is: What would you trade to put this franshise back on the map?
CptChaosSidekick - February 9, 2012 via mobile
I think we had 12 great draft picks last year all of which added much needed depth
But this year I think we really need to address the qb problem. I wouldn’t be pissed if we got Peyton, I just think that RGIII is the long term solution we desperatly need.
It’ll suck not having a 1st round pick next year, but I like what Shanny did late in the draft and I think he can handle a year without a 1st
skinsfan28 - February 9, 2012
8-9 wins is a mid-teens pick
DCrez - February 9, 2012
I was hearing yesterday that Childress is actually a fan of McCoy
Also that Holmgren thinks you have to give a quarterback 32-36 starts before you can properly begin your evaluation of whether or not he is a starter.
McCoy has started 21 games.
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
John Beck is only on what 7 or 8? we have plenty of time
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
Thank god we're not on the Holmgren system
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
haha
i get the feeling that is just a smoke screen for Holmgren
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
For that cost yes as long as it doesn't cost a 2nd in 2013
jbh1190 - February 9, 2012
Why is that your tipping point? You put all that on the table, but will walk away at adding another 2nd?
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
Because It's only costing 1 first and 1 second.
However I would prefer we keep all our picks this year…if shanny isn’t happy with the QBs
Trade down
1 Floyd
2 Best OT
2 Best OG
(order of the 2 2nds doesn’t matter)
3 CB
jbh1190 - February 9, 2012
2 first, 1 second...
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
Yeah, the one of the first is a swap, so you really can't count that
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
you actually should b/c that player probably has the most value
when it all comes down to it, it is RGIII vs 3 players
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
The 2012 first we don't lose. We simply trade spots, so it's not like we "lose" that pick.
it costs us 1 first and 1 second.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
i spent too long writing my reply haha
skinsfan28 - February 9, 2012
So will the Rams draft 3 players in this deal?
I get that its a “swap” but you’re still giving away 3 picks in exchange for 1.
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
So using my superior math skills
I arrived at a net result of two players
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
+1 sir +1
jbh1190 - February 9, 2012
+2
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
it doesn't matter you don't discount that player
if that is the case then we shouldn’t count Kerrigan as part of the haul last year for Gabbert
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
This is the way I see it
X. equals X. plus Y. plus Z.
the exes cancel out, leaving Y. and Z.
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
i get that the net is 2 plus picks
but the actual value is the some of all 3 picks vs RGIII,
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
basically there's two ways to look at it
So there’s no point in arguing it.
skinsfan28 - February 9, 2012
how are their two ways to look at it?
in what way are we not giving up the 6th pick as part of the deal?
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
I'll answer your first question
I’m looking at it in a different way than you are. My way + your way = 2 ways! Horrah!
We are giving up the 6th pick and getting the 4th pick in return. we are swapping firsts at the cost of a first and a second. This is just the way I see it. The way you see it is valid too.
But clearly this argument needs more discussion as it is what is important about this post. So by all means, Continue.
skinsfan28 - February 9, 2012
its the same way you are just defining things differently to make it seem not as big of a loss
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
I'm not arguing the cost to move up to the 2nd pick
what i’m arguing is how the trade should be valued and that is 3-1.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
it is 3 to one but you only gave up 2 additional players
you did not give up 3 players any way you look at it cause you got 1 back so 3 -1 = 2
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
so your point is essentially we are giving up 2 players for nothing
since that 1-1 equal out.
Yes i realize the difference is 2 players for the right to move up 4 spots and that is fine. My point is when this trade is graded it is 3 players to 1 player. Lets just say it is RGIII and Reiff. Not only does RGIII have to have more value than Reiff, but he has to have more value than two additional players.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
if RGIII is there at 6, do you take him?
If yes, then you’re only giving up two picks to draft him. You can’t count the player we would have taken at 6.
prc805 - February 9, 2012
you are giving up the #6 pick
but the additional picks are what was need to get the #2 pick or what was given in addition to the 6 pick. you would not be losing out on anything with reguards to that pick cause you got a player but you will lose out in the 2nd rd pick this year and 2013 1st rd pick next year
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
I dunno
But that’s the deal I want.
CJHutch - February 9, 2012
You should be the chief negotiator for the Redskins.
‘77: We’ll give you our 2012 1st, 2nd and 1st in 2013
Rams: Sounds good
fax arrives with NFL paper work “You’ve received two draft picks from the Redskins”
Rams: WTF?
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
(Mr. Burns voice…) excellent
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
So how many did we trade?
The only player out of the three in the deal that you even have a clue on who it is going to be is this year’s first, which makes it the most valuable.
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
Well if you look at it that way
Then we are swapping a six and receiving a two… that is better, correct?
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
No if you're looking at your way a ghost runner has been traded to the Rams for the #2
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
You lost me
Can you please define "ghost runner"?
I thought I was giving a six?
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
i think parks wants you to call the redskins and rams coaching staff
and find out who we woulda picked if there wasnt a trade. then wants to to call the rams and ask who they will take with our picks after the trade.
munson21502 - February 9, 2012
you are still trading players
you can’t ignore the potential impact that player would have
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
God knows a right guard is more important than a QB.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
not on his own, but with two other players he probably is, in fact by a lot
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
that must be why they get $100mill contracts?
DCrez - February 9, 2012
so money is equal to value?
Boy it is shocking the Redskins don’t have like 5 Super Bowl rings in the last 12 years given how much money they’ve spent.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
yeah those right guards are at the top of each draft arent they
damn near impossible to find quality lineman in later rounds too?
DCrez - February 9, 2012
That is correct
It is damn near impossible to find quality beyond round three
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
well DeCastro is probably the best guard prospect in 10 + years
so he is a rare breed. But there is also Riley Reiff, or any other number of talented players. Or ideas like say trading back and stockpiling picks.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
There is not a Guard or a Tackle in the NFL that you will take over Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Rothlisberger. The QB has way more impact than any single position in football
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
fantastic
what if RGIII is Matt Ryan, what if he is Jay Cutler. What if he is Jason Campbell? Or even worse?
You can’t just assume he’ll be great. Christ Sam Bradford was supposedly a can’t miss, but after two years there are some serious questions.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
I am not assuming he will be great i feel ther is a very good chance he will
but that is not the point I am saying that there is not a G or T in the NFL no matter how great they are that you would take over those QB’s
There is more value in a QB you can take a Matt Ryan, or Jay Cutler over a Great elite lineman
But you cant take a average lineman over a elite QB, cause you cant take a Elite Lineman over a Elite QB.
The Value of the QB is just way higher than any other position, and the rules even dictate that in todays NFL
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
The Jets have like three elite linemen,
but it does them no good because their QB is hot garbage.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
It does them no good? They have been very successful DESPITE the play from their top 5 overall QB pick
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
Did they make the playoffs this year?
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
No, but they went to 2 AFC Championships in a row before this year, and they finished 8-8 this year
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
Sounds like the Eagles of the AFC.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
They should of drafted another O-linemen
that would of pushed them over the hump
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
Well done Mr. Howard
+1
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
Or trade up and draft ANOTHER top 5 QB
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
it would have brought them closer than Sanchez has
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
Yes, on their defense primarily
Bryan Black - February 9, 2012 via Android app
I'm pretty sure you are on board with Drew Brees being a great QB
yet he’s missed the playoffs twice since being a member of the Saints
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
and?
this whole discussion is based on the notion Shanny thinks RG3 is a stud and wants to get him…..so it makes zero difference where anyone else was drafted, it’s about the guy Shanny likes now
DCrez - February 9, 2012
I agree with Dr.iH8
to many 1st round linemen is counter productive to the rest of the offense.
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
We can assume he will be great just as those can assume that he will bust
There are assumptions being made on both sides. Let me ask you if you had to go either way on RGIII, would you feel safer assuming boom or bust? Purely based on his qualities that have been outlined by both those in favor or trading up AND ALSO those in favor of trading down?
Bryan Black - February 9, 2012 via Android app
you can find things to nit pick about
but his overall package is Great, he is smart, charismatic, athletic, accurate, hard worker, leader and would be a great face of your franchise. I dont see what there is not to like about the kid
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
and we cant ignore the need of a frachise qb either
if we stay at 6. there isnt really any players at positions of need worth a top 6 pick. so we are gonna have to reach and take a lesser prospect with the 6th pick or hope to trade back with a team needing a RB or WR. i think either blackmon or richardson will be the 2 we will have to chose from. given our past i dont want to draft a wr that high. and i dont think we need a RB that bad. so that adds to the worth of risking a trade up to get most needed position imo.
munson21502 - February 9, 2012
Yes please
Elite arm, elite intagables, A student. I don’t understand why this is a tough decision. We are NOT going to be in a position to grab a QB of this skill set again anytime soon.
CptChaosSidekick - February 9, 2012 via mobile
Yes we will
We will have a top 10 next year (which will be four years in a row)
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
Rick Snider seems to think it's going to take 3 1st's
and a mid round pick to get RG3
Tiller56 - February 9, 2012
i would guess from that he's under the belief that Cleveland will put both of their picks on the table
so for the Skins to out bid them they’d basically have to go for 3 first rounders.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
No, he actually said Miami
in a tweet to me
Tiller56 - February 9, 2012
I see that also as if Miami misses on Manning they want to go all in
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
no way
If we were trading from the 22nd spot, then I could see three 1sts…but STL is only moving back four spots.
Kevin Ewoldt - February 9, 2012
desperation is a powerful thing
The Chargers spent essentially 2 1sts and 2 2nds plus an additional player to move up one spot to grab Leaf.
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
In a heartbeat.
Andrew DeFrank - February 9, 2012
Out of Curiousity
Can you just go out and buy a pick? If so, would that money go against the cap?
Redskin44 - February 9, 2012
Money can never be part of a transaction… no exceptions
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
If people try to sell a US senate seat, I'm sure there
are under the table ways of moving this deal along.
Cash Rules Everything..etc etc
TongoTongo - February 9, 2012
In the old CBS yea... but multiple people are saying it may be permissable under the new CBA.
I still don’t believe it, but its not definitive. Pat Kirwan said to FO personnel members said you could now under the new CBA (this was yesterday), but he also said he would like to confirm with a GM for today’s show.
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
I don't see how that can be true
It would destroy the parity in the league… teams with the most money get to do whatever it takes… why would a salary cap be necessary? Or for that matter, revenue sharing?
Skins Fan '77 - February 9, 2012
I'd rather have Russell Wilson
SSBlitz - February 9, 2012
To play 2B for the Nats?
Diesel44 - February 9, 2012
how dare you try to replace spinner
Benson L - February 9, 2012
+1
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
I was talking about him replacing whoever starts at AA Hagerstown.
Diesel44 - February 9, 2012
Hagerstown is single-A
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
Yeah sorry, I'm an O's fan and they use to be the O's AA affiliate.
Diesel44 - February 9, 2012
Would you guys rather have RG3 or J.Blackmon
I think either or would be good with sucha deep draft
theaction - February 9, 2012
WR's
I was under the impression that someone had to actually, ya know get them the ball.
CptChaosSidekick - February 9, 2012 via mobile
bitter much?
just a fuckin question, rex is serviceable, you guys did sweep the super bowl champs and all…
theaction - February 9, 2012
Griffin III
I would strongly consider trading the pick if Blackmon fell to #6. could get another 2nd rd pick and 2013 1st.
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
If they both fell to us, RGIII obviously. If only Blackmon fell, rather trade back or take Reiff.
2up2down - February 9, 2012
This whole thread has basically become the blue shirts vs the yellow shirts lol
mbedner - February 9, 2012
lets get manning and have rg3 as a backup
Benson L - February 9, 2012
or draft blackmon
Benson L - February 9, 2012
Blackmon idea is dumb
Megatron is awesome right? Well notice how they didn’t start actually wining games until they got a franchise QB to get him the ball?!
CptChaosSidekick - February 9, 2012 via mobile
QB is not the only area where the Lions have improved in recent years, though I’ll grant that it’s the most important area where they have improved.
hsoup - February 9, 2012
In Shanny I trust....
For now
CJHutch - February 9, 2012
Yeah
That’s all we can do for now.
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
Really Washington?!
Damn you people are stupid, trade away everything for one guy? Haven’t we made that mistake already once? Next thing there will be a pole saying that you will trade away a two 2nd rounds for Peyton Manning.
Mosaic - February 9, 2012
Go eat a penis.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
Next week
we learn about harassment in the blog-place.
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
Since when is
Swapping 1st round picks and giving up 2 picks…over 2 years giving up everything?
Who’s to say that we don’t have players that we can trade later to get picks back?
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Did you read the post?
Is this everything?
DavidDunn - February 9, 2012
this being...
DavidDunn - February 9, 2012
I wonder if the Giants regret trading for what's his name?
2-1sts, a 3rd and a 5th for just ONE GUY?! I wonder whatever happened to that kid.
44ever - February 9, 2012
He ruined their franchise. Set them back 20 years.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
That bastard
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
not a single 1st round pick on their oline.
DCrez - February 9, 2012
They
also have;
2 legit TEs
3 legit WRs
1 legit QB
3 legit pass rushers
2 legit rbs
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
Um....No, Yes, Yes, Yes and No.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
I'd take Jake or Bear
also
would take Ahmad
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
Uh no
your definition of legit is off
theaction - February 9, 2012
this is the internet
I’m using the internet term of legit
just like i’m using internet lingo
GTFO
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
Ok
theaction - February 9, 2012
Hey Philly fan.
In your opinion, what is Washington’s biggest need?
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
A offense in general, no offense
No one on that O scares me. The obvious move is RG3, but who knows what will happpen come draft day. I dont think Blackmon would be a disappointment either tho. I think if WAS is smart this draft with weapons the NFC East is gonna be a ruggard SOB to play in/ against.
theaction - February 9, 2012
TEs= 6th round pick (by 9ers) and undrafted FA signed.
Bradshaw is a 7th rounder, Jacobs a 4th rounder. Justin Tuck is a 3rd rounder….of course they do have some higher picks sprinkled in there, but obviously they win nothing without Eli and it took “mortgaging their future” to get him
DCrez - February 9, 2012
So your saying the key is
to draft good? and have a good qb?
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
Great QB
DavidDunn - February 9, 2012
I'm saying no need to go into hysterics over notion of giving up a 1st and 2nd to get RG3
obviously championship level starters are available well into the later rounds and through FA
DCrez - February 9, 2012
two 4ths, a 5th, and a 7th on Packers starting oline
DCrez - February 9, 2012
But but but...
the trade chart is useless????
DavidDunn - February 9, 2012
The trade chart is gay.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
well it hasn't been updated yet to the new realities of the draft so I would say its very outdated
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
If we don't draft RG3
we’re going to have to draft a franchise qb at some point. Sure, we could draft a qb in another draft, but a qb with as much elite potential is always going to go in the top 5, maybe 3, especially with the greater emphasis the qb is getting nowadays. Might as well shoot now while we’re sitting at 6. If we put all the other pieces in place without the qb the price will just continue to go up for us to move into the top 5. This is a great chance for us, and hopefully the last one for a long time.
orakpophobia - February 9, 2012
+ Infinity
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
+ Infinity, triple stampy ("you can't triple stamp a double stamp, Lloyd")
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
This RG3 talk is a headache of a debate but the answer is clear and obvious.
With this franchise and the history I can see why people would be be skeptical on trading up. But this QB needs to be resolved NOW. If our staff and scouts (fans included) think Griffin is the answer for the position then we need to do what is necessary to make a deal with STL to get him. Thats just how it needs to be and people who don’t want to advocate doing whatever it takes to get our QB need to get real and be honest with themselves. This is becoming ridiculous. Some of you guys are so far in the forest you can’t see through the damn trees!
xocnodnarb - February 9, 2012
+ Everything in the universe
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
So are the fan posts now buried so deep on the site that no one will ever find them?
Damn that Haslett story!!
Floppy P Key - February 9, 2012
That has absolutely nothing to do with Rodskins
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
SB Nation glitch that is being worked on
Parks Smith - February 9, 2012
I say do it.
Honestly, nothing else has worked. We haven’t had a good QB for a long stretch since… Damn. Theismann. If it works, great, we all win. If it doesn’t, well it will be status quo.
brettpedigo - February 9, 2012
One thing has been consistent about the Redskins over the past 10+ years, they have traded away draft picks - Look where it has gotten us over the past decade
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
not for a QB.
brettpedigo - February 9, 2012
Are you kidding? We traded picks for JC
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
exactly.
brettpedigo - February 9, 2012
Jc was picked at 26
He was not an elite talent coming out. To compare trading RG3 to JA is absurd.
brettpedigo - February 9, 2012
*JC
brettpedigo - February 9, 2012
And Aaron Rodgers was 25th...so...
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
so....we should hope to land an all-NFL qb late in the 1st round because it's happened before?
not much of a plan
DCrez - February 9, 2012
Ensuring you have a full slate of draft picks for multiple seasons in a row isn't much of a plan?
Wow, I really am taking crazy pills…
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
I really think that everything will click once we have a great QB.
Not much of a limb, I know. And RG3 could be Ryan Lead Jr. But This is a QB driven league and that is why the only time we were decent in 20 years is when we had one. Brad Johnson.
brettpedigo - February 9, 2012
We went 10-6 and got bounced of the playoffs...hell of a year...good thing we had that great QB
StephanHart - February 9, 2012
10-6? that is fantastic!
Around here? And I don’t know it you missed our loss, but it was a botched field foal snap as time expired for the win. In the second round.
Was that the only time Maryland has seen a home Redskins playoff game. Yes.
brettpedigo - February 9, 2012
Which one was invited to the draft?
brettpedigo - February 9, 2012
Stop playing Dumb
everybody know that Rodgers had a free fall cause he very well could have been the #1 overall pick he was the 2nd QB off the board nobody thought that Jason could have been the #1 overall pick that year
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
Oh, I get it
Aaron Rodgers should be used as an example of a way to prove that late first round draft picks work, because he is just so good. It is obvious to everyone that he isn’t good simply because he was allowed to sit for 3 years behind a guy that had been there for 15, and was given the reigns after said team was a field goal away from a SB appearance.
itsstevenweinstein - February 9, 2012
NEWS FLASH
This just in…
We have a new regime in DC…Vinny Cerrato is no longer making player decisions in the draft.
Legacee - February 9, 2012
No. We have one that commits to John Beck. and loses more than Vinny.
brettpedigo - February 9, 2012
Staked his reputation.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
which means we should stop overvaluing players and positions
Steve Shoup - February 9, 2012
Another post that demonstrates the Berlin Wall of some sort...
we can all fight for our ideals, but the only question that needs answering is -
What is Shanny/Allen going to do? Do we really believe they are interested in Manning? Flynn?
Or are they positioning themselves to trade up?
Aside from what we think we would do, what do we think THEY will do?
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
I think they are trading up.
RG3 will be a Skin.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
my thoughts are...
Shanny is desperate, given 2 losing years (needs to show the owner something, wins or progress towards that), He is GOOD friends with Fisher, and RG3 fits the type of QB he likes (mobile, strong arm)…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
Oh yeah. It's RG3 or pinkslip.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
But...
The one thing we have agreed on in HH is that we are making progress as a team…so he has already shown that to Dan…the team is moving in the right direction and everyone around the league has noted that…but what will it take to turn the corner?
Legacee - February 9, 2012
agreed...
he gutted the team, started over. Not easy to do. And remember, this FO/coaching staff have repeatedly talked about last year’s emphasis on defense and this years emphasis on offense…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
Yes
And it will happen…but the key to it all will be the QB…no matter how we get him…we have to get a “Franchise QB”
Legacee - February 9, 2012
But Dan might look at it as going from 6-10 to 5-11, that's a step backwards.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
True...
But he needs to sign the checks and let those in the know…continue to build this foundation for success that will last for years. It has to start somewhere, as we have tried and found out that it doesn’t fall out of the sky!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
RG3 fits Shanahan type of QB like a glove
in fact both RG3 and Andrew Luck fit what Shanahan like to have in a QB, so i think that they will trade up to get Griffin III cause Luck is off Limits. He wanted to trade up for Bradford but he was off limits, but RG3 is in play so he will pull the trigger and get his Quaterback of the future
Highspeed30 - February 9, 2012
friggin
matt barkley! i hate you!!
orakpophobia - February 9, 2012
LOL
Legacee - February 9, 2012
He never impressed me anyway. He reminded me of Clausen.
iH8dallas - February 9, 2012
Ouch!!!
That bad?!?!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Hmmm... So many analysts were saying Barkley was was just shy of being on par with Luck
Then again, people were saying that about Clausen in relation to Bradford…
mbedner - February 9, 2012
Barkley has a higher ceiling and is a smarter player.
He is a good prospect, but I don’t agree with people saying he is on Griffin’s or Luck’s level.
Horcasitas4 - February 9, 2012
where did Steve, Stephan, Tuck, Howard11 and 2up2down go...
they just disappeared…
jgibbsfan1 - February 9, 2012
Some of us work ...
:-p
tuckwell - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
i actually got off work
thats why i stopped posting
Howard11 - February 9, 2012
beautiful...
don’t tell anyone, but that is where I do alot of posting…
jgibbsfan1 - February 10, 2012
I do too
But running a retail tobacconist means very inconsistent time requirements. No customers right now, but I’ll be slammed in two hours.
tuckwell - February 10, 2012 via iPhone app
Enjoy!!
HH…been a great day! Even when we don’t agree this is still the best fanbase EVER!!!
Wouldn’t jump ship for anything!
Legacee - February 9, 2012
Ok, simple question for the "don't trade up" crowd
Who do you want to be our starting QB next season?
willster - February 9, 2012
TO GET RG3 BY TRADING BACK!!!!
snickers
ipitydafu - February 9, 2012
Well I'm not saying I'm in the trade-up crowd
If that’s what Shanny decides to do, then me must see something in RG3 (in my world, there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that Luck doesn’t go #1). If fine with staying at #6, and I’m fine if we trade back, providing they have a plan. John Beck obviously shouldn’t be our starter, and I don’t think we can survive another season of Rex. So who should it be?
willster - February 9, 2012
, then *he* must see something..
willster - February 9, 2012
*I'm* fine staying at #6
Damn, I really shouldn’t post after I’ve started drinking.
willster - February 9, 2012
It's time to quit being pussies and just get our man.
No difference in between building this year and next. Next year might be more expensive to pick up a top QB. I dont want to see another old washed up veteran on our team.
ipitydafu - February 9, 2012
F/A will tip Shanny’s hand . If we can get a guard a rec and some secondary help RG3 is very doable. Might even be able to trade down a couple of pics on day 3 to get more depth.
future is now - February 9, 2012
or a cant get right type like jason campbell
munson21502 - February 9, 2012
Just saying draft day won’t be a surprise. He’s not that stupid not to address some of this teams major needs through F/A . hey but we got RG3 who needs a R/T, G, REC. SS, FS, CB, 2CB if you do whats right and cut D.Hall and an inside backer to replace our QB on defense if one player {a rookie at that} can cover all that up he shits gold bricks through a square ass.
future is now - February 10, 2012 via mobile
so you mean the redskins need to nail this draft?
Howard11 - February 10, 2012 via iPhone app
I hope that we continue to build through the draft. As much as we need that franchise QB I can’t see where we’re in any position to give up one potential starter much less 3. since there could be a potential 6 QB’s in next years draft that are better than all but two in this years. I also keep reading how we don’t want a QB that has been with another team ’’we need to grow our own so he can be just a Redskin." That should be the policy across the board. Use F/A as little as possible not to fill the roster . I thought learned that in Vinnieball 101 .
future is now - February 10, 2012
isn't your I.D.....
“Future is Now”?
This doesn’t compute -
Just saying…
jgibbsfan1 - February 10, 2012
Depends on your view of the future.
Is one player the future of the team, now? Or is the future a better team in general, while waiting for the capstone?
tuckwell - February 10, 2012 via iPhone app
The ID comes from the teams of the early70’s being some of my fondest childhood memories. The team was filled with childhood heros. 43,80,42,9,17,55,37,27,72
future is now - February 10, 2012 via mobile
that is a little before my time...
the beloved George Allen era. There was a guy who believed in trades.
jgibbsfan1 - February 10, 2012
Not with rookies though. Allen brought in a lot of guys he knew and had coached before. That wasn’t that risky but, it was expensive. Ask Jack the Pardee was over before it had begun .
future is now - February 10, 2012
Whatever it Takes!!!
There is no debate… whatever it takes!!
I look at it this way… I think RG3 will be the most electric player in the NFL, regardless!! Most likely, he will right the ship and get the Redskins back where they should be, but in that off chance he can’t, the Redskins may still lose, but he’ll be fun to watch!!
Right now… they suck and they aren’t fun to watch…
Knightwchmn - February 10, 2012
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